in a campaign a friend's running, he's come up against a bit of a problem and it got me thinking:
he made a totemist from the magic of incarnum go against his PCs and he said they said one of the tactics that he used seemed illegal, or at least should've provoked an attack of opportunity. the totemist is apparently like a more melee-based druid and can sorta shapeshift into stuff (he told me); there's a power that lets you basically land on someone and get 4 attacks in, like a pounce i take it. however, his players said that while charging into combat with that would be acceptable, it wouldn't standing in melee, because you couldn't get the required movement without provoking an AoO (since unlike pounce, you jump on people, not charge them)
i'm kind of at a loss as what advice to give him. they have a point, but i suppose my question is, does the above action sound like it provokes an AoO?
i'm thinking that it'd be a yes for jumping *on* someone melee, but not for jumping *into* melee. my reasoning being that it sounds like this was meant to be like a pounce-type power and pouncing on someone from beside them seems kinda dumb, but then again, it's a fantasy game
I think that, yes, it would cause an attack of opportunity, but the pounce attack is a class feature right? So it would probably says in the book whether or not it povokes an AoO.
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You provoke an AoO every time you leave a threatened square. So if said enemy has at least 10-ft reach, you should provoke an AoO when you jump on him, since he would threatend vertically up as well.
he said it was an incarnum spell/power called "landshark's boots" and it allows you to jump on people. however, he said it doesn't say it provokes and AoO. he said since it doesn't say this, it's legal, but i tend to agree with his players - if someone moves 5', they're leaving their square (the ground) and then landing on you = AoO, because they've moved in such a way that would (probably) provoke.
however, this is weak at best since i don't have the resources in front of me, and also haven't really ever considered jumping ONTO someone in D&D.
If, as a part of a move, you achieve a jump check result good enough to make a 5-feet high jump while within reach of an opponent, you can attack that opponent with all four claws as a standard action. You use the same attack bonus for all four attacks. You cannot make any other attacks in the same round, whether from natural weapons or manufactured weapon.
So, basically,
First of all, he does not "land on" an opponent. So that point is irrelevant. He jumps at least 5-foot "while within reach of an opponent." So, it may or may not provoke AoO depend on how he moves during that round. And by RAW it usually does, because he start that jump in a square within reach of an opponent and leave that square by jumping at least 5-foot. The square (1 square above ground) will be also a square threatened by an opponent. So when landing, he may provoke AoO, too. Nothing in that rule says he does not provoke AoO with this move. He may use tumble skill to prevent provoking AoO depend on situation.
__________________ Shin Okada (AKA Japanese Protocol Droid) My Webpage
First of all, he does not "land on" an opponent. So that point is irrelevant. He jumps at least 5-foot "while within reach of an opponent." So, it may or may not provoke AoO depend on how he moves during that round. And by RAW it usually does, because he start that jump in a square within reach of an opponent and leave that square by jumping at least 5-foot. The square (1 square above ground) will be also a square threatened by an opponent. So when landing, he may provoke AoO, too. Nothing in that rule says he does not provoke AoO with this move. He may use tumble skill to prevent provoking AoO depend on situation.
Don't forget a 5' move never provokes an AoO, even if it is from threatened square to another. Thus if he only moves 5' then he would not provoke.
However if this power works like pounce then that is a charge effect. And a charge requires that you move at least 10'. Meaning either he cannot do it unless he can move at least 10' and if he does he then provokes an AoO because he has moved more than 5' while within a threatened square.
Don't forget a 5' move never provokes an AoO, even if it is from threatened square to another. Thus if he only moves 5' then he would not provoke.
That is not true. 5-foot step does not provoke AoO. And when retreating, the square you started to move were not considered to be threatened by anyone.
Still, if you move 5-foot in any other way, say, moving 5-foot into a difficult terrain, you may provoke AoO (you cannot take a 5-foot step into a difficult terrain).
In this case, even if not charging, the attacker is neither taking a 5-foot step (because jumping is done as a part of a move action) nor taking a retreat action (because he is attacking). So likely to provoke AoO.
__________________ Shin Okada (AKA Japanese Protocol Droid) My Webpage
The entry for landshark boots specifies "as part of a move." It doesn't say "move action" or "5-foot step," neither of which is "a move." Jumping is part of movement. It's the movement, which is required to use the boots' ability, that determines whether there is an AoO.
It sounds as if the DM in question has the totemist stay in one square and jump up. That's fine, IMO, although reasonable people can differ, because 3.5 is so weak on Y-axis movement. But if it's allowed, it must be considered movement, and it thus provokes an AoO.
Getting tripped on that AoO would suck.
__________________ Jeff Wilder, San Francisco Bay Area If your sig is longer than your posts, your sig is too
long. Nobody reads it, they just get annoyed by it. And if you bore me, you lose your soul to me. - Belly
Action: None. A Jump check is included in your movement, so it is part of a move action. If you run out of movement mid-jump, your next action (either on this turn or, if necessary, on your next turn) must be a move action to complete the jump.
So unless specifically noted otherwise, jumping is done as part of a move action.
Also, even if a DM consider that a character can jump as a part of 5-foot step, if a character jumps up 5-foot or more, then he falls down 5-foot or more. At that moment he may provoke AoO.
__________________ Shin Okada (AKA Japanese Protocol Droid) My Webpage
So unless specifically noted otherwise, jumping is done as part of a move action.
Also, even if a DM consider that a character can jump as a part of 5-foot step, if a character jumps up 5-foot or more, then he falls down 5-foot or more. At that moment he may provoke AoO.
Always tumble checks I guess.
__________________ "If you can't believe in yourself, believe in me who believes in you."
and
"Go beyond the impossible, and kick reason to the curb" Kamina, from Gurren Lagann
It sounds as if the DM in question has the totemist stay in one square and jump up. That's fine, IMO, although reasonable people can differ, because 3.5 is so weak on Y-axis movement. But if it's allowed, it must be considered movement, and it thus provokes an AoO.
Getting tripped on that AoO would suck.
And incidentally, if that is the case it would be a 5 ft standing high jump, with a DC of 40. And still provoke an AoO.
__________________ "I hurt Firewing." is not something a huge number of people can say. "He dropped a parking garage on me," on the other hand, a lot of people can say. -Kazan, my Champions GM.
And incidentally, if that is the case it would be a 5 ft standing high jump, with a DC of 40. And still provoke an AoO.
True enough. There are several options (I think several, though only Leap of the Clouds comes to mind by name) to drop the DC to 20, and I'd imagine a totemist built around the concept would make use of one of those options.
__________________ Jeff Wilder, San Francisco Bay Area If your sig is longer than your posts, your sig is too
long. Nobody reads it, they just get annoyed by it. And if you bore me, you lose your soul to me. - Belly
That is not true. 5-foot step does not provoke AoO. And when retreating, the square you started to move were not considered to be threatened by anyone.
You just repeated what i stated. Read what I said above.
Quote:
Still, if you move 5-foot in any other way, say, moving 5-foot into a difficult terrain, you may provoke AoO (you cannot take a 5-foot step into a difficult terrain).
Then my statement holds true because that would not be a 5-foot step it would be at minimum a 10-foot step.
Quote:
In this case, even if not charging, the attacker is neither taking a 5-foot step (because jumping is done as a part of a move action) nor taking a retreat action (because he is attacking). So likely to provoke AoO.
If he moves more than 5' and leaves a treatened square and does not use the retreat maneuver he provokes. In the case of a Retreat Maneuver the square you are exiting is not considered to be threatened, but if the one you enter is then you provoke. Also in the case of a Retreat you can do nothing that round other than move.
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