9th level (ECL) Human Half-Fiend Character

[morez]

We are going to start a new evil campaign at 9th level. As i got really good rolls (16,16,14,13,12,12) I decided to build a Half-Fiend (LA+4). As class I choosed a cleric of Nerull with the evil and trickery domain. Do you think this character is strong enough to still have fun in a 9th level campaign, as he has a loss of 4 caster levels. I really would like this character like a trickster cleric with trip as his main melee tactic and i like the versatile character as he can cast (though not very powerfully), go stealthy, fly and is i quite nifty melee tripper. Would you suggest to better concentrate on play a straight fighter (or other class with no spell level progression) ?
Appreciate any suggestions ... thanks in advance

Here is my current build:

Human Half-Fiend Cleric of Nerull (NG) 
Level: 5 / ECL 9 
 
Attributes: 
- STR: 22 
- DEX: 16 
- CON: 16 
- INT: 16 
- WIS: 16 
- CHA: 16 
 
AC: 23 (10+1natAC+3dex+7armor+2ring) 
HP: 42 
Initiative: 3 
Spell Resistance: 15 
Speed: 30  
Fly: 30 (average) 
 
Savings: 
- Fortitude: 8 
- Reflex: 5 
- Will: 8 
 
Attacks: 
BAB: 3
- Melee: 9 
Scythe  
Attack: 3+6+1 = 10 
Dmg 2d4+9 Crit: 19-20 x4 
 
Claw  
attack: +9/+9 
dmg: 1d4+6 
 
Bite (secondary) 
attack: +4 
dmg: 1d6+3 
 
- Range Attack: 6 
Sling: dmg: 1d4+6  
 
Skill Ranks ==> Points: 
- Concentration 8 ==> 11 +5 (tunic) == 16 
- Bluff 8 ==> 11 
- Disguise 8(+2) ==> 11 
- Hide 8 ==> 11 
- Knowledge (the planes) 1 ==> 4 
- Knowledge (religion) 5 ==> 8 (+2 rebuke undead) 
- Craft alchemy 6 ==> 9 
 
synergy 
- Diplomacy 2 
- Intimidate 2 
- Sleight of hand 2 
 
[4 skill points left] 
   
 
Feats: 
- combat expertise 
  - improved trip  (should be his main melee tactic)
- tomb-tainted soul (highly recommended for the whole party I am playing in)
 
 
Class Features: 
- rebuke undead 
- domains: Evil | Trickery
 
Racial Traits: 
- Smite Good (Su) 
- Darkvision out to 60 feet. 
- Immunity to poison. 
- Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10. 
- Damage reduction: 5/magic (if HD 11 or less) or 10/magic (if HD 12 or more). 
- A half-fiend’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. 
- Spell resistance equal to creature’s HD + 10 (maximum 35). 
- Spell-Like Abilities: (CHA-based, CL= HD) 
Darkness 3/day 
Desecrate 1/day 
Unholy blight 1/day 
 
 
Equipment: 
scythe keen +1 (8000) 
mithril shirt +3 (10500) 
ogre gauntlets str +2 (4000) 
ring force shield (8500) 
tunic of steady spellcasting (2500) 
Cloak of Resistance +1 (1000) 
sling 
2 flasks of unholy water (50 
2x Tanglefoot Bag (100) 
2x Alchemist's fire (40) 
Disguise Kit (50) 
(=34740)

[Ffaelfarrin]

Any reasons why you did not chose a ring of deflection +2?
Gives you a deflection bonus (which also applies to touch and flatfooted AC) instead of a shield bonus and costs round about the same.

[morez]

Well, I thought that deflection won't stack with a lot AC buff spells and i more likely will find some deflection items during adventuring, though thanks for advide i will reconsider that.

Still do you think the win of versatiltity is worth the have a loss of concentration on few strengths?

[Aus_Snow]

3rd level spells, rather than 5th. 5 HD, rather than 9.

Ouch. If the campaign is at all dangerous, or even likely to be deadly at any stage, I would most definitely *not* use a template, particularly one that loses you *four* levels. If it's a very gentle campaign, or a very gentle DM I guess, sure. Why not.

[risner]

Originally Posted by morez

rolls (16,16,14,13,12,12)

Human Half-Fiend Cleric of Nerull (NG) 
Level: 5 / ECL 9 
Skill Ranks ==> Points: 
- Concentration 8 ==> 11 +5 (tunic) == 16 
- Bluff 8 ==> 11 
- Disguise 8(+2) ==> 11 
- Hide 8 ==> 11 
- Knowledge (the planes) 1 ==> 4 
- Knowledge (religion) 5 ==> 8 (+2 rebuke undead) 
- Craft alchemy 6 ==> 9 
[4 skill points left] 

Racial Traits: 
- Damage reduction: 5/magic (for now, increases at ECL 16)

Worked out you stats, because I couldn't immediately tell they were correct.
Attributes: STR: 22 (16+2item+4HF) DEX: 16 (12+4HF) CON: 16 (14+2HF) INT: 16 (12+4HF) WIS: 16 (16) CHA: 16 (13+2HF+1-4th)

You meant to say NE for your alignment right? You can't have Evil domain, rebuke, or worship Nerull as a Neutral Good.

Your skills are off, you have too many. You get 2+INT for Cleric, with 5 HD that becomes (2+3)*(5+3) = 40, you have spent (8+8+8+8+1+5+6) = 44. So instead of having 4 left, you have spent 4 too many.

[morez]

Sorry of course this one is EVIL. My bad!

And as his base race is human he gets 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.

I know from a power build perspective this one is much weaker than a 9th level cleric without template, but as I got really good rolls I thought i could give it a try (like that style of the character) for the price of being weaker and more vulnerable.

It's just my concern as Aus_Snow mentioned, that this character will be too weak to have fun as he probably does nothing or dies in the first encounter. Especially when party goes high levels i could regret my decision as casters fly, casters have spell resistance, casters have damage reduction and can cast but this one just has some cantrips compared to casters with full spell progression. Maybe a melee build could be more powerful as the loss of 4 levels are then better compensated by the Half-Fiend's abilities.
Still, if not too many tell me that this character will do nothing but die i'd like to play that one as i like it .. though that will easily change when my little winged half-fiend has no success at all.

[Aus_Snow]

Well, you can only try, when it comes down to it. I might've come across as more discouraging than I intended. It's just an opinion I've formed over time, but that don't make it applicable to all, that's for sure.

The bright side, I guess, other than playing what you want to play - and I'm not going to actually try to stop people on the interwebs from doing that! - is that you'll be levelling up more quickly, until you just about even out, at some stage. If you make it.

Also, you could ask (if you think it's a good idea to) if the DM will allow LA reduction, as found in Unearthed Arcana. The bad news there is that, for a LA of +4, it's not going to be all that useful, and not one bit for a while. Still, every fraction of a level saved, helps.

[Theroc]

Originally Posted by Aus_Snow

Well, you can only try, when it comes down to it. I might've come across as more discouraging than I intended. It's just an opinion I've formed over time, but that don't make it applicable to all, that's for sure.

The bright side, I guess, other than playing what you want to play - and I'm not going to actually try to stop people on the interwebs from doing that! - is that you'll be levelling up more quickly, until you just about even out, at some stage. If you make it.

Also, you could ask (if you think it's a good idea to) if the DM will allow LA reduction, as found in Unearthed Arcana. The bad news there is that, for a LA of +4, it's not going to be all that useful, and not one bit for a while. Still, every fraction of a level saved, helps.

He won't be catching up levelwise unless the DM gives him more experience or the DM allows the LA reduction rules(as experience needed to level is based on ECL).

I would strongly encourage you to ask about LA reduction, as any little bit helps. However, you'd need to stick out your massive LA adjustment until level 12, where you'd get to bump down to LA+3. To get lower than LA+3, your campaign would need to progress into the epic levels, as I believe you would have the opportunity to go to LA+2 at level 24, and LA+1 at 36, and LA+0 at level 48.

I've no idea how fast your campaign levels, how long you intend to go, etc... but LA reduction would be somewhat important if you wish to go straight caster for your character.

[Aus_Snow]

Originally Posted by Theroc

He won't be catching up levelwise unless the DM gives him more experience or the DM allows the LA reduction rules(as experience needed to level is based on ECL).

Ack. Dunno how I mixed that one up quite so badly. Wrong end of the morning, I think.

Good catch, anyway.

[Dragonnety]

I would suggest a hat of disguise. It would help to pass by as a normal humanoid.
Plus, I suggest, play the chatacter. It may be the weekest in the party, but a difficult character is sth always worth playing (plus he is interesting and he is a walking quest). It shows the difference betwen new player's and those who want more from the game, than to be the char with the most damage. keep him! Save the Cleric of Nerul! Don't let him dissappear under a pile of used char sheets!

[Theroc]

As Dragonnety said, if you enjoy the character, don't let us discourage you.

Especially if your DM is aware of the disparity, he(or she) may actually include things that bring your characters particular advantages to the fore, due to your LA penalty making your char possibly less efficient.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I forget if the +4 CL from the Practiced Spellcaster feat is limited by HD or ECL, but if it only lets you have a CL of up to your HD, I would try my hardest to lobby the DM for a houserule. Being behind two spell levels is bad enough. Having a 4 point disadvantage on beating SR and winning a CL check for dispelling makes casting in those situations damn near futile. I know the Assay Spell Resistance spell can alleviate the former issue, but it's level 4 and only good for one creature for one combat. It's far too expensive to prepare enough times to cover you on offensive spells. IMHO, spending two feats on Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration, when you're already starting w/ two less feats than a level 9 human is an even bigger waste.

So...if you can't get PS feat, you can basically count out dispelling and offensive casting from your available roles. You'll be mostly buffing and healing.

[Theroc]

Also, just noticed, if I understand how pricing a magic item works, your scythe is far too cheap.

Scythe base cost is 18 GP. Add 300 for masterwork, then 2,000 for +1. Keen counts as another +1 pricewise, so that in and of itself would cost 8,000. Total cost: 10,318 GP for a +1 Keen Scythe.

Unless of course, I am misunderstanding how the SRD is explaining the costs, in which case I learn something. (And feel a bit happier about the pricing of magic items, but then again I can be greedy sometimes... lol)

[risner]

Originally Posted by Theroc

Also, just noticed, if I understand how pricing a magic item works, your scythe is far too cheap.

Scythe base cost is 18 GP. Add 300 for masterwork, then 2,000 for +1. Keen counts as another +1 pricewise, so that in and of itself would cost 8,000. Total cost: 10,318 GP for a +1 Keen Scythe.

+2 weapon (+1 and Keen) = 2*2*1000 = 8000 + 300 + 18 = 8318 gp, not 10k.

[Dragonnety]

I would suggest a weapon with reach. perhaps a glaive. but i agree that a half-fiend cleric of Nerul with scythe is a walking intimidate check (plus it looks cool).