Would humans and other playable races even exist in D&D?

[ScionJustice]

Just looking through the MM it appears that humans wouldn't even have a chance in such a world. With creatures such as Mindflayers, Trolls, Oger Mages, hydras, giants, demons and devils that it's just silly to think that humans, elves, dwarves or any other playable race could even exist. One Mindflayer could pretty easily overthrow almost any large city, and a single troll, Oger Mage, or Hydra could run threw a small town with out any problem, let alone multiple.

[Jack Simth]

Originally Posted by ScionJustice

Just looking through the MM it appears that humans wouldn't even have a chance in such a world. With creatures such as Mindflayers, Trolls, Oger Mages, hydras, giants, demons and devils that it's just silly to think that humans, elves, dwarves or any other playable race could even exist. One Mindflayer could pretty easily overthrow almost any large city, and a single troll, Oger Mage, or Hydra could run threw a small town with out any problem, let alone multiple.

There's a couple of problems with that...

1) Any creature without DR, Incorporeality, or a way to avoid detection can't deal with massed fire. Slings are simple weapons, and with regular rocks, they cost exactly nothing. How many Commoner-1's can you get shooting at the same target, do you think?
2) D&D population profiles mean that even a small town is going to have at least a couple fifth or sixth level people with PC classes.
3) A "nearby" metropolis will very often have 17th or 18th level people with PC classes, and they'll almost certainly have Greater Teleport available. Drop a "scrying target" (an undead mouse with orders to fail all will saves) and a few scrolls of Greater Scrying and Message in a protected city, and you suddenly have a teleport task force to deal with sudden threats.
4) What, exactly, is the monster density, and why do they want to stir up that kind of trouble?

[roguerouge]

That's why humanoids evolved into getting PC classes from their pesky NPC classes.

[ppaladin123]

Player characters travel in exotic locales and fight exotic beasts. Commoners don't usually set up their villages in the 5th circle of hell or in the underwater caverns of the Aboleths.

Most of the monsters you find wandering around the surface of the natural world can be kept at bay with sturdy walls. A single troll is not going to attack a settlement of 250 torch-bearing peasants. He'll kill a bunch of them but eventually get overwhelmed. Most dragons or hydras couldn't be bothered to attack such a settlement. What do they get out of it? Undead creatures stick to catacombs and graveyards and avoid the light. Dire creatures are rare and unorganized.

The major problem is war bands: orcs, goblins, gnolls, kobolds. They are a serious threat to outposts and minor settlements. That is what the PCs are for.

[Talonne Hauk]

Plus, just because those bastardly beasties are out there, doesn't mean there's enough of them around to mount a huge threat. 1st edition MM was wonderful in illustrating the commonality and rarity of monsters. In general, the higher the CR, the less of those creatures out there.

[ScionJustice]

Originally Posted by Talonne Hauk

Plus, just because those bastardly beasties are out there, doesn't mean there's enough of them around to mount a huge threat. 1st edition MM was wonderful in illustrating the commonality and rarity of monsters. In general, the higher the CR, the less of those creatures out there.

Really nothing would stop the mindflayers from reproducing as much as they wanted. The Gith aren't going to do crap to them, they'd populate and run the world in a few decades.

[akbearfoot]

Biggest problem with that is the limited food supplies. Especially in the case of mind flayers. And the quasi-fact that they do not reproduce through sex.

Any civilized community large enough to satisfy such a food requirement would likely be fairly large and advanced enough to NOTICE the problem and do something about it.

Small enslaved village off next to the Mournland or the edge of the Demonwastes sure....Enslaved Metropolis in the middle of civilized lands isn't likely to ever get that far without nearby good guys noticing and interceding.


Night Below module anyone?

[Vegepygmy]

Originally Posted by ScionJustice

Just looking through the MM it appears that humans wouldn't even have a chance in such a world.

Then there must be other factors in play that aren't covered in the MM, huh?

[Arkhandus]

1) Food supply. Trolls, dragons, giants, remorhaz, and such need a WHOLE FREAKING LOT of food. Without people and animals making up a majority of the population, these big nasties would quickly starve to death or resort to eating each other, which would diminish their numbers and make it easier for hidden enclaves and other critters underfoot to expand and get strong enough in numbers to overwhelm some of the big nasties.

2) Demons and devils are rivals, and interfere with one another (to say the least), while celestials try to interfere with both and other fiends. Plus they usually need to be summoned/called by folks in the Material Plane. And they don't generally have class levels, so not as much high-end spellcasting. Other monsters compete as well.

3) Class levels. Monsters need time to grow into their power. Humanoids multiply rapidly and develop in classes that their kind have developeda nd honed over the generations. By the time a dragon is powerful enough to cast 1st-level spells, a human born in the same year may already be an archmage hurling Meteor Swarms and Wishes to and fro. By the time a frost giant is big enough to crush humans like gnats, a human will have already become a weapons master or master assassin, and will cripple the giant in seconds and slay it swiftly.

4) Deities. Humanoids have by far the largest pantheons around. The Great Mother and her small number of beholders (who have extreme rivalries and enmities among themselves) can't possibly interfere with the ENTIRE Baklunish pantheon (let alone the Suloise, Oeridian, Flan, and Olman pantheons, and that's only covering the Material Plane of Oerth) helping out their human worshippers to thrive despite the threat of a few measely beholders that can't even stand to work together. Sekolah can't help her sahuagin take over the seas and the surface while competing with Blibdoolpoolp's kuo-toa and Panzuriel's krakens and such, at the same time as they try to deal with Eadro and Deep Sashelas and their merfolk, aquatic elves, tritons, and such (who are much more apt to work together and with other races).

The giant pantheon has its own internal problems, and giants don't get along so well with different kinds of giant, so they're not such an overwhelming threat to humanoids. Dragons and their pantheon are self-explanatory in their rivalries and inability to conquer humanoids all over, with their own enmity between different dragon breeds. And the goodly or neutral humanoids have more deities on their side than the evil humanoids, generally speaking. Sure, some of the good/neutral humanoids' deities are evil, but even those ones usually want themselves, and their faithful, to be dominant over the monsters and their monstrous deities in the world.

So in short, the numerous humanoid deities (who often, but not always, receive more power from their very-numerous and fervent worshippers than many of the monstrous deities do from their few and less-devout monstrous spawn, though such is not always the case) trump the monstrous deities and thus have more freedom to help their humanoid followers (you'll notice there are many artifacts made by humanoid deities, not so many made by monstrous deities for their worshippers to use). Humanoids have the gods on their side, more often than not. And that means a lot of clerics and such, as well as a lot of wizards and such since humanoids are the ones who most often pursue such paths.

[pawsplay]

With creatures such as Bengal tigers, polar bears, rhinoceroses, black boars, and US Navy Seals existing, it's just silly to think that koalas, armadillos, goldfish, snails, and senior citizens on disability would continue to exist.