Good idea? Every phb wizard spell up to 6th in his spellbooks

[Particle_Man]

A friend of mine is joining a 3.5 campaign and hasn't played in decades. He wants to try an academic wizard who can "engineer" solutions to problems. And he wanted to keep things fairly simple (thus he didn't want a specialist or any prestige classes). The game tends to be low on magic items.

So I guided him a bit, with Boccob's blessed book (made by him), a few other minor items (ring of sustenance, for in game reasons), some wands and scrolls (cheap since both are made by him), and aside from those crafting feats, alacritous cogitation (basically instantly fill up a left-open spell slot, 1x/day), extra spell slot (4th spell level), and greater spell penetration (+sp).

And most of his starting money was spent on getting every single wizard spell in the phb that he could cast (he is 11th level, so all 1st-6th level spells). Partly I did this so that he can look at the spells online from home, as they are all in the srd. Partly to give him great versatility. And there is some synergy with alacritous cogitation.

He has a cat as a familiar and maxed out (albeit cross-class) hide and move silently and search, as well as concentration and spellcraft. He also has some knowledge (arcana). He is half-elf (his choice).

It was my idea to go for all the phb spells. Was I doing him a favour or did I hurt him badly?

[StreamOfTheSky]

It could work. I assume it s core only? Otherwise he'd do better taking some splat book spells for some of the core ones. I'd get rid of anything that only affects less HD than he has, they're unlikely to be useful. Just skimming the list, I'd say remove the following:

Cantrips: None. You get them all for free anyway.

1
Hypnotism: Anything still weak enough for this to workon you can kill/bypass by other means.
Sleep: Drop this! 4 HD limit!
Cause Fear: Limit of 5 HD. Crap. Use the Fear spell instead.
Magic Weapon: You have greater, which lasts nearly all day. If you must have it, just get some 25 gp scrolls of it...

2
Daze Monster: 6 HD limit.
Scare: 6 HD limit

3
Deep Slumber: 10 HD is ok...Still don't think it'd be that useful by level 11

4
Lesser Geas: 7 HD. Actually might be worth keeping, since it's not to "win" an encounter, but to acquire a temporary lackey.

6
Circle of Death / Undeath to Death: Still useful against weak foes, but limited to 9 HD for any given target. Anything with that few HD will soon be easy to deal with by the party, no need for a level 6 spell.

Of course, there are a lot of other spells (enlarge/reduce person, obscuring mist, etc...) that generally work just as well at CL 1 and could just be used via scrolls. But he wants to know them all, so whatever.

[The Kyngdoms]

Originally Posted by Particle_Man

...snip...

And most of his starting money was spent on getting every single wizard spell in the phb that he could cast (he is 11th level, so all 1st-6th level spells). Partly I did this so that he can look at the spells online from home, as they are all in the srd. Partly to give him great versatility. And there is some synergy with alacritous cogitation.

...snip...

Was I doing him a favour or did I hurt him badly?

Well, only you can really answer that, since it's your game. Personally, whenever I've played a wizard I like to fill out my spellbook as much as possible - but only up to a point, as some spells just become not worthwhile after a while. I also like to balance my wizards out a little with some ability enhancing magic items, some protection (for AC, saves, etc), or something to boost their power. Of course, I'm not sure what you allow in your game, so these may or may not be good for you.

Versatility is good, of course, but there comes a point when you're just collecting for collecting sake. From a flavor stand point there's nothing wrong with that, but if you're trying to balance the character out then some of that cash may have been better spent elsewhere! YMMV of course.

[Runestar]

Personally, I feel that knowing so many spells isn't really that useful because at the end of the day, you still only have so many spell slots and can cast so few spells at any one time. This is why I love the focused specialist variant in complete mage - I will willingly give up spells to cast the fewer spells I do know more often.

The only exception I can think of is if you have a means of spontaneously casting any spell you know somehow. For example, you could leave slots empty, to fill with the appropriate spell as circumstances dictate. Or take feats that let you cast spells spontaneously, such as alacritious cogitation (complete mage) or uncanny forethought (exemplars of evil). This way, you are almost assured of have the best "silver bullet" spell to deal with a given situation.

Else, I personally feel that beyond a certain point, extra spells known aren't all that great and you may simply be better off saving the money and spending them on better magic gear instead.

[Rhun]

I despise the fact that spells cost so much to add to your spellbook in 3E. I mean, having more spells in your book doesn't give you more spellslots, so what would it hurt if they are cheaper.

In my homebrew campaign I have significantly dropped the cost to copy spells into your spellbook. So I'm on the side of "go ahead and give him all the spells you want."

[risner]

Originally Posted by Particle_Man

And most of his starting money was spent on getting every single wizard spell in the phb that he could cast (he is 11th level, so all 1st-6th level spells).

That sounds like millions of gp.

[DarkelvenSFi]

I've always thought the cost of putting spells in a spellbook is meant to offset the need to pay for equipment that other classes typically buy. But this argument is countered by divine casters not having this cost; and not being as combat focused as say, a fighter/barbarian/plandin/etc.

I still make my wizards pay this cost, because it's in the rules, but it seems a bit counter-productive in my opinion. Your everyday wizard will likely need similar, or not more magic items to help in battle.

Having all the spells is a bit superfluous. When/if you introduce additional books, such as the Spell Compendium, this sort of option becomes far too costly; once again, a cost that divine casters don't have to pay. And this reaffirms the overkill in terms of variety. Your player will spend so much time looking at each spell and wondering what to memorise; what works with what for the best benefit, let along knowing what all the spells do (especially if they're new to the edition).

I'd suggest that having all the spells is a nice idea, but a poor decision when the gold could be better spent elsewhere.

[green slime]

When I play a wizard, I'm the collector kind, I need to have as many different spells as I can afford in my spellbook, without hampering my efficiency in game.

With magic Items, I try to cover the all the basics, and use all available body slots, but try to stick to the core items. Because more of the other players are aware of those items, rather than digging up something esoteric from the MIC which the other players don't have a clue about.

I also ensure that I stock up on a large collection of low level non-aggressive scrolls. This ensures that I always have protective and miscellaneous effects available, and frees up the memorised slots for the efficient, destructive, high DC spells for combat. All down time is spent creating scrolls and other items.

[Particle_Man]

Originally Posted by risner

That sounds like millions of gp.

It is doable with the starting recommended gp for 11th level characters, if a) You stick to the spells in the phb, and b) You create and use Boccob's Blessed Book, and c) You make use of the "free" spells a wizard gets two of every level after 1st.

But it doesn't leave too much money for other stuff.

[green slime]

Originally Posted by Particle_Man

It is doable with the starting recommended gp for 11th level characters, if a) You stick to the spells in the phb, and b) You create and use Boccob's Blessed Book, and c) You make use of the "free" spells a wizard gets two of every level after 1st.

But it doesn't leave too much money for other stuff.

Remember you don't have to purchase scrolls of spells to scribe, if you can somehow gain access to another spellcaster's spellbook. This is possible from other PC's, other friendly aligned NPC's, whom may still charge you a minor fee for the privelege, and captured spellbooks.

[GenghisDon]

I agree that it depends on how you run your game, but on the rare occasion I play rather than DM, that's a dream type chr for me. I tended to utterly dominate games with wizards & full books in 1e, 2e or 3e. How he does really depends on what his former playstyle was, if he was always a mage player it is a fantastic base to start from (more than I ever had)

[Rackhir]

I've been running a wizard in Shilsen's campaign with full access to all PHB spells and 2 SC spells per level.

In theory, it is very powerful.

However, it really hasn't changed much of anything from a practical point of view. 99% of the time I'm using the spells I'd have taken/acquired anyway.

In reality, you don't know what you're going to be encountering. The number of spells you can actually use daily is very limited and you have a lot of bases to cover (defense/offense/information/crowd controll/buff/etc...). You have to try to be prepared for a range of possible foes, attacks and counters. My 16th lvl char with a maxed int +6 bonus to int, essentially only gets at most 7 spells per spell level and that number falls off very sharply for the the highest level and thus most useful spells.

Poor spell selection can render you either ineffective or impotent.

IF you alway knew what you were going to be facing.
IF you always had the opportunity to prepare a tailored list.
IF you had a lot more spells or the opportunity to choose on the fly what you could cast.

Then yes it might be unbalancing.

But unless that's the case, I wouldn't worry about it.