I'm putting together a high Dex, low Cha, 3rd level halfling rogue focused on snooping and swiping - but I also don't want to be completely useless in combat. Are any one- or two-level dips worth it? Fighter, sorceror - even monk? Or do I stick with the melee rogue standards: Weapon Finesse, TWF, Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack? Trying to stick to core only.
__________________ "You're human?"
"Barely. I'm a lawyer."
Unfortunately, for a poor combat rogue losing rogue levels is hard. Because poor combat rogues need their sneak attack to be worthwhile. So taking a few dips into another class should only be done if it makes you more likely to hit with your sneak attack.
With only core, I wouldn't go monk at all. Flurry of blows will only hurt your chances of sneak attack. It isn't worth it.
Sorcerer is nice so long as you focus on spells that help you move into a position to apply sneak attack. The hit to BAB and HP is tough, though.
Actually, 2 levels of fighter is not a bad idea so long as you take fighter feats that are smart. Plus, the bonus HP, bonus feats, bonus BAB can really be worth a sacrifice of 2 rogue levels (only +1d6 sneak attack damage and a special ability).
2 levels of Ranger would be nice as it introduces TWF combat style, better saves, and a small favored enemy boost.
2 levels of cleric could be worthwhile for the HP, the spells, and the saves. Of course, the hit to BAB is equal to sorcerer at two levels.
Personally, I'd go fighter (and think about introducing TWF with the bonus feats) or just go ranger for about the same thing. But you'll need a few feats to make it worthwhile.
__________________ Most recent products published:
Complete Control - Turn your 3.x game into a game without multiclassing, or classes for that matter! Make your character exactly how you want it.
Complete Gear - Eliminate item issues in your gaming. NPCs can have any gear without impacting game balance. Magic Marts don't need to even exist!
I'm with the fighter dips. But nothing else. Also check what rogue PrCs are available to you later in the game and pick up ANY / ALL that have +1d6 sneak attack at level 1 (guild thief from FRCS for instance). You can make up your missing sneak attack that way.
You could consider multiclassing into swashbuckler and taking the daring outlaw feat (lets you stack both classes for determining sneak attack and dodge AC). Dungeonscape has this variant which lets your SA deal 1/2 damage to crit-immune foes. Maybe throw in 1-2 lvs of swordsage while you are at it for shadow blade.
2 levels of fighter for sure! I'm a huge fan of the Rogue/Fighter multiclass. I'm building an 8th level PC right now that is doing that exact thing.
__________________ -Rhun
"I believe that imagination is stronger than knowledge - myth is more potent than history - dreams are more powerful than facts - hope always triumphs over experience - laughter is the cure for grief - love is stronger than death." -Robert Fulghum
I might also consider a Ranger dip- esp. an Urban Ranger- and concentrate on ranged combat instead of 2WF.
You've got the Dex and the racial bonus- use those daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, nets, thunderstones, alchemist fire, tanglefoot bags, etc. and stay out of combat! (Try hard to find a Quiver of Ehlonna.)
You have some decent skill synergy and you wouldn't lose many skill points.
If you dip far enough into Ranger, you can get a riding dog as your animal companion and further boost your movement rate...don't forget mounted combat feats! OR you could get a dire rat or one of the flying animal companions and train it to steal things for you. (Yes, I know Handle Animal is a Cha based skill.)
A dip into Sorcerer- especially one who has one of the Heritage Feats and the associated Breath Weapon (like Draconic or Infernal)- can make for a very flexible PC with a nice hidden punch.
A dip into Beguiler is nice as well- armored spellcasting that is geared towards a roguish style of play and is based on Int, minimal loss of skill points and a fair bit of skill crossover. And in a similar vein to the Sorc above, a dip into Beguiler with either access to a HR for the Draconic Heritage feat or takes Dragontouched (from Dragon Magic) gets that sneaky BW as well.
A dip into SoulKnife mainly gets you a weapon that is almost impossible to take away- which doesn't suck- plus (eventually) a throwable version of it and a damage enhancement. However, simply taking the Wild Talent feat gets you access to the Kineticist PrCl, you gain a similarly reliable weapon, plus an energy enhancement to your weapon and a psi-like ability akin to the Warlock's Eldritch Blast.
If the OP considers www.20srd.org to be "core," there's always the martial rogue variant to gain a great burst of combat prowess: Fighter feats for SA. That said, with core only feats available, there are only so many that are even useful.
I would just do pure Rogue. Rely on SA for doing damage, accept you won't be as useful against things immune. Make HEAVY use of your Use Magic Device "class feature." Load up on wands and scrolls of low level spells. Grease can allow you to SA -- anything balancing w/o 5 ranks is flatfooted. Using a "weapon-like" spell (rays, melee touch, and others that require an attack roll) means SA applies. A single Ray of Frost goes from d3 to d3 +xd6 cold damage, quite nice against say...Red Dragons and other fire creatures. Acid Splash allows no SR, so even a CL 1 item can be used against any foe not immune to acid. Summon Monster spells provide flanking buddies. Aside from assiting in doing your Rogue thang, low level spells like Entangle and Obscuring Mist (denies you SA, only use when you can't SA anyway, like against undead) are often useful.
With a good UMD check and lots of magic items, you can have tools to solve multitudes of problems and fall back into a support role for the party if you find yourself unable to help offensively. Of course, you'll feel a lot more useful if the group you're in lacks many actual spell casters.
It's a shame about the core, though....So much good stuff outside of core.... Mmm...Staggering Strike...Craven.....*drools a little*
My online gaming group, Torch of Spirit (Contains all information for the current game I'm co-DMing as well as lots of houserules I'm using or considering for the future. Feel free to check it out.)
I know, but "Core" is a bit fuzzy- some people consider the Completes core, some say its only the first 3 books. The Sorc suggestion uses only info from the PHB and CompArc.
And having done that, I figured I'd add in some additional, quasi-related stuff to be polite.
I don't see how sorc or beguiler really mesh well with rogue. In the case of beguiler, you are probably off simply going pure beguiler instead (they get trapfinding already). Your sorc lv will likely be too low for the complementary draconic feats to be of any real use (between low DC, availability of energy resistance and SA won't apply to them either).
Sorry, I should've been clearer: by "core" I meant just the PHB, and maybe the SRD variants. That said, I'll store away all the other suggestions for when I make a rogue cohort in my other campaign that uses more books.
__________________ "You're human?"
"Barely. I'm a lawyer."
... curious minds still want to know. How are you deciding to take that rogue of yours? Staight rogue? A little fighter? A little ranger? A bi of sorcerer?
__________________ Most recent products published:
Complete Control - Turn your 3.x game into a game without multiclassing, or classes for that matter! Make your character exactly how you want it.
Complete Gear - Eliminate item issues in your gaming. NPCs can have any gear without impacting game balance. Magic Marts don't need to even exist!
... curious minds still want to know. How are you deciding to take that rogue of yours? Staight rogue? A little fighter? A little ranger? A bi of sorcerer?
I think I'll go straight rogue. It's a large party, so he can pull his weight in plenty of ways other than melee.
__________________ "You're human?"
"Barely. I'm a lawyer."
If you're planning on making a martial character, I've found that multiclassing is a great way to go. (Unless your DM is using some weird house rule like favored classes.)
Essentially, dip into several different martial classes and you'll still be able to hit reliably. The more you focus on any one, the more you'll tend be useless in a significant percentage of fights. Rogues and rangers can suffer from that in particular, while fighters eventually run into the problem of not having any useful feats to take anymore.
-blarg
__________________ Red Hot Swing
"In Inspired Sarlona, nightmares have you!" -Klaus
If you're planning on making a martial character, I've found that multiclassing is a great way to go. (Unless your DM is using some weird house rule like favored classes.)
Essentially, dip into several different martial classes and you'll still be able to hit reliably. The more you focus on any one, the more you'll tend be useless in a significant percentage of fights. Rogues and rangers can suffer from that in particular, while fighters eventually run into the problem of not having any useful feats to take anymore.
-blarg
Accessible at almost any time: http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm
Complete Arcane
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Mage
Complete Divine
Libre Mortis
Heroes of Horror
Drow of the Underdark
Monster Manual 3.5E
Monster Manual 2
DMG/PHB
Psionics Handbook
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Spell Compendium
Tome of Magic
These I can access rarely:
Complete Adventurer
Complete Warrior
Complete Psionic
Races of Stone
Draconomicon
Complete Champion
A few assorted Monstrous Manuals... I can't recall which ones.
I MAY be able to access the Forgotten Realms and Eberron Campaign settings.
Well ... unless you've done like many of us around here and cover those specific words with a thin layer of permanent ink. {But yeah, they are RAW from a literal interpretation. And in my opinion a horrible part of RAW}
But then again, I've decided the whole idea of class is for the birds. I want to build characters according to what features I want and need for the character, not what some game designer thnks is an appropriate progression in a prewritten class. That, however, is another thread.... {Read my sig if you are curious}
__________________ Most recent products published:
Complete Control - Turn your 3.x game into a game without multiclassing, or classes for that matter! Make your character exactly how you want it.
Complete Gear - Eliminate item issues in your gaming. NPCs can have any gear without impacting game balance. Magic Marts don't need to even exist!
I don't see how sorc or beguiler really mesh well with rogue. In the case of beguiler, you are probably off simply going pure beguiler instead (they get trapfinding already). Your sorc lv will likely be too low for the complementary draconic feats to be of any real use (between low DC, availability of energy resistance and SA won't apply to them either).
Even with only one Sorc level, the Draconic Breath weapon (as soon as 2nd in the chain) would give him access to at least 3 2d6 area effect attacks per day, more if he has any kind of Cha bonus (not applicable here, obviously), plus any benefit from the spells themselves- Jump, Feather Fall, Enlarge or Reduce person, True Strike and Detect Secret Doors all have utility for a thief...not to mention the actual attack spells.
Over time, one Sorc level with DB won't do much, but it WILL increase the odds that the PC will make it to higher levels. And since the Feat applies to ANY arcane spell, any other arcane spell slot the PC picks up will be useful.
Even with only one Sorc level, the Draconic Breath weapon (as soon as 2nd in the chain) would give him access to at least 3 2d6 area effect attacks per day
Yes, my point is how 3 2d6 AoE effects can possibly be useful, even at 3rd lv? That also requires 2 feats, which have no use outside of that 1 lv of sorc (I assume the OP wants weapon finesse and perhaps improved initiative as well).
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
