So here's the story. Our party used a Feather Token (Swan Boat) to sail to a town we've used as a base before. However, the town had been burned to the ground, and a couple squads of men were driving slaves to build a great hall where the center of the town used to be. We tried to avoid them but we were captured.
The slave lord tells us we owe something like 25% of our personal worth in tithes for being on his land. We (honestly) do not have that much cash on hand. The slave lord says he will forgive our debt if we raid a tomb and return the loot to him. We agree only because we have no option.
We've been at the tomb for a while, under guard. We have some free time to figure out what to do. We absolutely will not be delivering our hard-earned loot to him. I want to explore taking out the slave lord & freeing the slaves, but I've never been in such a tactically disadvantageous situation. It seems like a TPK.
We have a ranger, sorcerer, knight, cleric, and fighter. All level 8. We have to take out maybe 25 fighters of unknown level (the DM says, "You believe you could take out a handful of them before they brought you down"). The slave lord is assumed higher level than we are, but we don't really know.
We have some bags of holding, a wand of Cure Moderate Wounds x25, a staff of life with enough power to resurrect one of us, a bunch of +1 weapons, and everyone is wearing +1 or +2 armor. The sorcerer is a pyromaniac -- fireballs, bursts, rays, etc. My cleric has the luck & travel domains.
We are trapped and so cannot hire on mercenaries or otherwise "normally" improve odds. My only thought so far was to to have my cleric use Lesser Planar Ally. With enough castings, I can probably get 6 outsiders. We have them go in as a raiding party and kill off whoever they can. Meanwhile, we confront the slave lord and take him out.
Seems like a losing strategy so far, yet it's the best I can think up. I just don't see how 6 creatures (probably rasts and jannis) can take out 25 fighting men of probably equal level.
Is anyone familiar enough with cleric spells to know of better options? Anyone good with battle tactics? For example, if our sorcerer flies up and fireballs the fighters from the sky, can she get high enough to avoid arrows? Or are D&D ranges not working in our favor here?
Perhaps we can arrange two battles? Whittle down the enemy on day 1, then finish them off on day 2? What do you think?
How will the enemy approach you? Surround you all at 1 go or come in multiple waves? Will you be fighting in an enclosed area (where it is easier to guard chokepoints) or in a wide open space?
If you can get rasts, I think they would best serve as support, where they can try to use their paralyzing gaze to disable as many foes as possible. The DC is crap (13 vs +7fort minimum), but spam it enough times and a few have to get through. Maybe if you can get a succubus (highly unlikely I suppose due to alignment restrictions), you could try to charm as many fighters to your side as possible.
The sorc may wish to conserve his firepower and try to focus on as many area-affecting debuffs as possible, like evard's tentacles. I suppose fireball will suffice in a pinch.
Is it sure to become a mass fight? Might there be some opportunity for reprieve (say kill enough and the rest flee, or maybe you can try to convince the guards to revolt or something?) How much time/opportuniy to you have to heal/buff in between fights?
First, change your morale. Remember, you're the PCs! You're not trapped with them. They're trapped with you.
Second, time is not against you. Make sure you have create food and water memorized. Now you can withstand any siege.
Third, your DM has kindly given you a choke point: the Tomb. If they've got an insignificant force bottling you up in the tomb, take them out and go guerrilla. (Heck, you can just cast Stone Shape and escape that way.) If they've got the 25 dudes camped out at the entrance, even better.
Do your summoning, but don't waste them as decoys or suicide attackers. (Planar allies won't do that anyway.) Wait a day. Start your battle with your summoning 1d3 fire elementals from SMIV in their midst. Your sorcerer casts fireball with impunity and, if she wants, uses them as a source of fire for pyrotechnics. Knight and fighter stand in the entrance, and hold that spot. Planar allies are support. (If hound archons, they spam the aid spell on the two fighters, darting behind them from cover.) From cover, the ranger picks off the wounded with his bow. You keep summoning disposable allies that don't interfere with your artillery. Since it's important you don't get bullrushed, you might consider a beefy monster in front of the two fighters, like celestial lions or bears.
Fifth, if you want to fight nasty and have the time, you can do some serious damage with your stealth capabilities and the contagion spell. Blinding sickness looks like a nice pick. Stone shape to get out, disguise, and a pat on the back as you replace some dude at guard duty...
__________________ All role playing advice is given without knowledge of you and your group. Only you and your group knows what is fun for you. What you are doing is not badwrongfun. My advice is offered based on what I think might be fun for you to try.
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"I already have a place where I can get little recognition for my accomplishments, advance at a very slow pace, and have to work hard to eke out minimum rewards for my efforts. It's called work." - toberane.
You should trick them. Tell the slave lord (better have the sorceror lie) that you did clear the tomb, but the treasure is too large fot you to move. He will probably have slaves move the treasure. But the slaves will be guarded by soldiers. Like this, you will split his troops to two groups. A small one (propably 6-15) with the slaves and the rest with the slave lord. You kill the small one right before they enter the tomb or you can trap them inside, and kill them with a few well-placed spells. Later, more guards will come to see what's going on. Kill them too. I guess the remaining could be killed easily. Especially if you make some sabotage or a slave riot (haven't you watched Spartacus?
Good questions, Runestar. So, the enemies will mostly stay where they are, in town. We'll have to go to them. They are in a funnel of sorts. There is a tiny bay with some (now destroyed) docks. The docks area is a flat region with steep hilly inclines on either side. This flat area narrows as you proceed to the town, which sits at the base of hills on either side. This is why we were captured -- the inclines are too steep for us to get our cart over them, and backing away from town simply leads to water (and our ship was gone). So we were in the funnel, and trapped.
We might be able to use this to our advantage now. The tomb is about 3 miles away from town, so we can position ourselves on the outside and attack from the inclines.
It doesn't have to be a mass fight... at least not at first. We were given 3 days to complete our task, and we're on day 3. We assume that some of the soldiers will arrive to check on us in a day or two. We can take out those guarding us, then take out the soldiers that come to check on us. That will likely still leave 20 soldiers, and the DM will bring in big reinforcements if we kill the guards and then sit around waiting for them to check on us again. So after picking off our minders, we'll have to assault the town within a day, probably. That's a mass fight, and having only 20 enemies there will probably be the best we can hope for.
I just realized that I can cast Divination, which is basically a free "ask the DM" spell. I might use that to determine the weak points or see what the DM might reveal.
The sorcerer doesn't have Evard's Tentacles. Only Fireburst, Fireball, Fly, Web, Seeking Ray, Grease, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, and a few others I forget.
And roguerouge, I just saw your post as I was writing this. THANKS! That's great stuff. I really like the idea of guerrilla attacks. We wouldn't use the tomb as a bastion for a siege, because the enemies will summon far more allies than we can. We'd end up with 40 or 60 warriors at the doors in just a few days. However, I do like the idea of adapting your battle plan for the town. It would require more time -- to get 6 outsiders will use all my 4th level spells, which means I can't use SMIV to get fire elementals. But if I pay the outsiders more, they'd wait a day, I'd regain spells, and we'd go at it fully charged. That's possible.
I'm looking up the Contagion spell right now. I'm hopeful!
You should trick them. Tell the slave lord (better have the sorceror lie) that you did clear the tomb, but the treasure is too large fot you to move. He will probably have slaves move the treasure. But the slaves will be guarded by soldiers. Like this, you will split his troops to two groups.
Oh my gosh I like this so much. It might give us a chance to free some slaves, arm them, and get them to aid us.
Planar allies stay as long as you pay them to stay. Bite the bullet and give them the daily rate. Wait a day, then cast follow the battle plan. It's costly, but there's nothing that says that you can pay for that cost out of clearing out the tomb... which should power you up.
__________________ All role playing advice is given without knowledge of you and your group. Only you and your group knows what is fun for you. What you are doing is not badwrongfun. My advice is offered based on what I think might be fun for you to try.
"Art is the demonstration that the ordinary is extraordinary." - Amedee Ozenfant, Foundations of Modern Art
"I already have a place where I can get little recognition for my accomplishments, advance at a very slow pace, and have to work hard to eke out minimum rewards for my efforts. It's called work." - toberane.
Is anyone familiar enough with cleric spells to know of better options? Anyone good with battle tactics? For example, if our sorcerer flies up and fireballs the fighters from the sky, can she get high enough to avoid arrows? Or are D&D ranges not working in our favor here?
Surely not completely safe, if they have longbows or similar long range weapons, but certainly not too bad, especially if she has some decent protective spells running.
The problems arise, when the slavers start using the slaves as shields or just start to slaughter them to show you how mean they are. You cannot really win a fight like that.
Bye
Thanee
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Surely not completely safe, if they have longbows or similar long range weapons, but certainly not too bad, especially if she has some decent protective spells running.
The problems arise, when the slavers start using the slaves as shields or just start to slaughter them to show you how mean they are. You cannot really win a fight like that.
Bye
Thanee
True - sitting around & waiting is probably not a good option. Best to strike quickly and use surprise when you can to take out as many as you can. Heal up & rest for the minimum amount of time needed, only if you need to. The longer you wait, the more time the BBEG had to recruit more bad guys and/or mercenaries to his cause.
Heck, I might go for a direct strike on the BBEG in hopes of taking him out and causing confusion in the ranks.
Lesser Planar Allies could also get you some Bralani Eladrins, which are pretty handy in a fight against melee types - they have DR10/cold iron or evil; they move at 40 and can fly at 100; resistance to cold & fire; and minor spell resistance... heck, they can create mirror image at will, so that makes them a good opponent for a level 6 fighter. They can also try a few Charm Persons to get some more allies on your side - or at least put them out of the fight for a bit?
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Last edited by NewJeffCT; 4th June 2009 at 05:40 PM..
Reason: added more info & typos
That's it right there. Try to break up the army into smaller manageable pieces. Cause diversions to make the Slaver split his forces then hit those forces with everything you got.
Is there any way you can adventure in the tomb to -- ding! -- get to 9th level?
Honestly, the difference between 4th-level and 5th-level cleric spells is hee-yooge ... combined with everybody else's leveling up, that's probably the difference between "TPK" and "BGO" ("bad guy obliteration") right there.
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Is there any way you can adventure in the tomb to -- ding! -- get to 9th level?
Honestly, the difference between 4th-level and 5th-level cleric spells is hee-yooge ... combined with everybody else's leveling up, that's probably the difference between "TPK" and "BGO" ("bad guy obliteration") right there.
I know, a slaver seems like a good recipient of a level 5 Flame Strike... or, how about a Greater Command of "Flee" or "Fall" that lasts for 9 rounds and affects 9 bad guys if they fail their will saves (which probably aren't great for Fighters!) or casting Righteous Might and joining the melee as a size Large creature with DR? Or, if they stay in the dungeon and know the bad guys are coming, cast Symbol of Sleep and take out a whole slew of 'em.
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
No way to get to level 9. The DM awards XP only when he's ready for us to level up, and he intends for this to be a level 8 adventure. Anyway, we're about to play so we will see how it pans out.
Thanks for the tips. The whole team has been reading the this. I hope the DM is surprised, tho.
__________________ All role playing advice is given without knowledge of you and your group. Only you and your group knows what is fun for you. What you are doing is not badwrongfun. My advice is offered based on what I think might be fun for you to try.
"Art is the demonstration that the ordinary is extraordinary." - Amedee Ozenfant, Foundations of Modern Art
"I already have a place where I can get little recognition for my accomplishments, advance at a very slow pace, and have to work hard to eke out minimum rewards for my efforts. It's called work." - toberane.
Is this a 'free the town from the evil slavers' adventure?
Because in that case, although 'stupid' actions (like waiting for the badguys to replenish their losses) will be used by the DM to re-even the odds, in the end you should be able to win this.
If, however, the DM intended this to be a 'dungeon-crawl with XP gain but no monetary gain because it goes to the slavers', then no matter what you intend to prepare, the slavers will win (unless you can pull a rabbit out of your hat the DM didn't see coming)
Of course, this assumes a DM-vs-players style of game, which from your posts seems to be the case.
If the DM simply introduces challenges and then awaits your replies on how you will deal with them (the DM not favoring the NPC's, but fascilitating), this becomes a whole different ballgame, and good planning can get you anywhere.
In case of the latter, however, keeping things hidden from your DM, or 'surprising him', as you state, is a Very Bad Idea(TM)
Although most DM's can handle spur-of-the-moment ideas, when you introduce tactics, spells or monsters the DM hasn't had time for to look up, I have known DM's to simply prohibit the use. Not because he wants to 'win', but because the player appearently didn't trust him to run the encounter fair if he'd known what the player was planning, and therefore doesn't trust the player to play fair either.
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I tried something in a recent gaming session that might work well for you and i think rogurrouge already mentioned it.
Lesser Planer Ally to call a hound archon, this gives you several options.
Cast a mage armour on it and with its damage reduction you have a good tank to help on the front lines.
Or have it pretend to be a wolf and have it cast aid on your fighters.
Either way its aura of menace and magic circle vs evil should give good defensive bonuses.
Splitting the foe does sound like a good plan, If you have time to prepare you could put some gylphs in the cave to weaken any searchers or try a roundabout route to the town to avoid the investigating party.
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I'd suggest preparing a bunch of silence spells, and taking out the guards in isolated groups. With the fighter and knight silenced, using the ranger or sorceror to attract a guard or three into a small area with a single entrance, shut them in, kill them quickly, rinse, repeat. If you succeed with this three or four times, you'll have halfed the force against you. Pity you don't have rogue in the party, this kind of thing really is their forte, and the sneak attack damage is something you guys really are missing.
If you go about trying to divide / conquer (which is really the only way to go about it), you have to focus on killing/incapacitating the victims as quickly as possible, with as little effort as possible. Perhaps use charm person or intimidate/diplomacy. Focus on rendering one dead/incapicitated and ask the others to surrender or suffer a similar fate. (Keep them well tied up).
Use your prisoners to lure more groups away, either to ambush, or away from areas were you want to act (free slaves, poison their supplies, kill their horses (reducing their mobility)).
And once you've started your war, keep moving! Stay fluid.
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If, however, the DM intended this to be a 'dungeon-crawl with XP gain but no monetary gain because it goes to the slavers', then no matter what you intend to prepare, the slavers will win
You guessed it.
It was fun planning out strategies with all of you guys, though.
It was fun planning out strategies with all of you guys, though.
However, if calling Lesser Planar Allies, I believe it is the DM's choice of what you get, though for a good aligned cleric, the Hound Archon or Bralani Eladrin are probably the most common choices. The bralani does have a CR6, which is 2 higher than the Archon, so hopefully the DM would have mercy on you. (the MM bralani has an AC that is 1 higher, 12 more hit points and gets a 2nd attack) You can have at least a couple of them protecting the sorcerer and cleric, while the others "man" the front lines with the knight, fighter & ranger to take advantage of flanking. The hound archons can also teleport at will, so could suddenly appear behind the bad guys as a flanking force, which would be nice. The bralanis could also cast lightning bolts - if you can call 6 of them, that is half a dozen 6d6 bolts of lightning.
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
Only Fireburst, Fireball, Fly, Web, Seeking Ray, Grease, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, and a few others I forget.
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