Slight of hand in combat

[Baldin]

hi all,

Im currently playing a D&D 3,5 compaign as a rogue lvl 3 fighter lvl 1.

last time me and my party encountered a very tough rogue/assassin and when he was nearly down he drunk a potion to heal himself, now i knew where he drew the potion from so i told the gm "I want to pickpocket the other potion he got there."

the GM ruled not to do this due to the lag of knowlage we had about how to do this, in the rule compendium there is said "When the target of your slight of hand is aware of you pickpocketing him he may force you of making a grapple or disarm check.".
atleast something the like.

now in my eyes the subject couldnt know if i was going to pickpocket him so he is not aware, though he is observing making him able to make a spot check against my slight of hand.

basicly my question is how should we, in the future, rule if someonce wants to pickpocket in midcombat.

all ideas and thoughts are welcome.

Greetz, Baldin

[Allegro]

I’m inspired by the word “cutpurse”; how about treating it as a sunder attempt against the pocket, sack, backpack, or belt the potion is attached to or in?

[irdeggman]

Well the rest of the text in the Rules Compendium says

The DM is free to limit what you can take in this manner - coin purses and tiny weapons are fair game, but securely worn items, such as bracers of armor, are not.

Is a stowed potion - in a not too visible location a "securely worn item"? Maybe.

Did you succeed in a Spot check prior to this to determine that you actually "knew" wheer the potion came from? And that he had another one there?

If you are in combat I assume that everyone is "threatened" - if so IMO attempting this would generate an AoO, especially since retrieving a stored item does.

[Baldin]

thanks for all the quick awnsers.

Some awsners i can give to questions are.
1. do you know where the potions are?
Well yes i do, he has them in a lil back strapped on his belt.

and just for a bit more info, i thought due to the fact im a rogue that u should be able to do something with Slight of hand in this situation but it indeed is a hard topic to judge.

Thanks for the responses so far i think they will be usefull indeed=]

greetz
baldin

[Rhun]

As a DM, I'm not sure I would allow a PC (or an NPC for that matter) to pick someone's pocket in combat. The participants in combat just aren't standing there...they are moving around, weapons flailing, etc, etc. If I did allow it, I would almost certainly apply a penalty on the attempt, or even allow the target an attack of opportunity in the pick pocketer.

[Bihor]

You have to remember two things.

Drinking a potion provoke an AoO.

And that when the observer’s success is spot chek it doesn’t prevent you from performing the action, just from doing it unnoticed.

So I would grant a touch attack (to grab the pouch) at -8 for size.

[MichaelK]

I don't have all my books with me right now, but I think there is a feat to allow you to do that. Maybe called 'Cutpurse' maybe in Complete Adventurer but I can't be 100% sure.

[Thanee]

Originally Posted by irdeggman

Is a stowed potion - in a not too visible location a "securely worn item"? Maybe.

If it is, however, he won't be able to produce it with a Move Action. He would then need a Full-Round Action to retrieve it from the secure location.

Bye
Thanee