It seems irdeggman has the same reading of the rule as I do. Attacks are made against 1 target unless specified before rolling. I have no problem with rolling at the same time to save time but you need to inform before hand what you intend to do with your attacks.
Yeah but the problem that can arrise when attempting such a "time saving" action is that you now have problems with changing your target - which by the RAW you specifically can do for subsequent attacks.
Or even switching from a full attack to a standard attack if the first attack felled your opponent (or even had no effect) - again the RAW specifically allows you do to this.
All of the potential "issues" with making multiple dice rolls at the same time need to be thought out (and probabaly explained) before doing such a thing or else things can get real "messy".
There is pretty much just 1 potential abuse for allowing all attack rolls at once. If there are multiple opponents with ranges of ACs and the archers forst attack(or any other that isnt his last) drops a foe, then the player would be able to know what his attack roll was before it was assigned to a target. So if he only rolled a medium roll and knew he could hit a softer target with it then he could effectively cherry pick that shot. Not even that big of a deal, really.
The easy solution is to just say that unless he specifies targets as he rolls, or dictates the secondary/third etc...target in advance then his extra shots automatically target the next closest foe. Problem solved. So he could say 'if I drop my target, the other shots are on that guy over there' And then there is no issue with cherry picking.
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Go untwist your panties and stop putting words in my mouth.
You know, it's okay to disagree with people. It's not okay to be rude and insulting in the process. There were a lot of ways to respond to this - rebutting the argument, for instance - without including the inappropriate cheap shot or making it personal.
And on that same note, Dyson, your post was really looking to pick a fight. Again, there are a huge number of ways to phrase that that aren't the verbal equivalent of shaking your finger in someone's face. Please consider that next time.
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No SR resistance for imbued arrows unless there's a spell attached that requires it.
I let my players split their attacks when an enemy falls, because it's both realistic and way more fun. If I want them to be speedy and rolle all their attacks at once, it'd be kind of jerky to me to say "your first attack downs him, now you spend the rest of the round hacking at his dead body." That's no fun for anyone in my opinion.
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The easy solution is to just say that unless he specifies targets as he rolls, or dictates the secondary/third etc...target in advance then his extra shots automatically target the next closest foe. Problem solved. So he could say 'if I drop my target, the other shots are on that guy over there' And then there is no issue with cherry picking.
You could also let them announce it before they roll -- "Oh, if I drop him, I'm switching to guy X with the rest of my attacks." Or you could let them pick their next target, but have them reroll the subsequent attacks.
Probably a good idea to figure out how to handle it before it comes up, though.
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I let my players split their attacks when an enemy falls, because it's both realistic and way more fun. If I want them to be speedy and rolle all their attacks at once, it'd be kind of jerky to me to say "your first attack downs him, now you spend the rest of the round hacking at his dead body." That's no fun for anyone in my opinion.
Well, except when the melee dude has no targets within reach, still has a couple of attacks left, and really disliked the guy that just dropped.
Oh, it's also handy against regenerating foes; beat them deeper into unconsciousness, so you can have more time to figure out what kills 'em.
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Last edited by coyote6; 23rd June 2009 at 05:37 PM..
Reason: missing ]
No SR resistance for imbued arrows unless there's a spell attached that requires it.
I let my players split their attacks when an enemy falls, because it's both realistic and way more fun. If I want them to be speedy and rolle all their attacks at once, it'd be kind of jerky to me to say "your first attack downs him, now you spend the rest of the round hacking at his dead body." That's no fun for anyone in my opinion.
Thank you for both posts.
I intend to ask which spells the archer uses then see if there is a SR for it. She kept complaining if we did that then her archer would be less effective. Are these not supposed to be tough to beat monsters if they have SR? You may be less effective against them.
For now what I plan to do is ask that attacks are rolled separately if they intend to use additional attacks on other opponents.
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The only arrow the arcane archer fires that is subject to SR is an imbued arrow.
"Imbue Arrow (Sp)
At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted. "
The regular attacks she makes with enhanced arrows are just like attacks with arrows that had been magically enhanced with a bonus. Heck, just to overkill, the point, if you click on the little Su in parentheses next to the class feature name, you arrive at the rules for Supernatural Abilities: "Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic."
And the Arcane Archer says every arrow she nocks and lets fly gains this benefit, so no, it does not take a standard action to so improve each arrow if you would next try to argue that...
Heck, even if it WERE a spell-like ability, let's look at the baseline spell for enhancing weapons, Magic Weapon. Note it has an entry of SR: Yes (harmless, object). The spell is affecting the weapon, not the creature you use the weapon to strike with. So even then, SR would not apply.
EDIT: And even for Imbued Arrow, it's only subject to SR if the spell used is subject to it.
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I think the confusion came into play when the word supernatural was used for the other entries like enhanced arrows.
I'm almost afraid to ask this. Can you use a ring of teleport to save yourself from a 100ft pit trap? The group as a whole came to the conclusion that there would not be enough reaction time to activate the ring. Feather Fall is meant to work at these times but not a teleport.
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Depends how far you fall in a round, which I don't recall off-hand. If they spend enough time falling to get a turn, the character should be able to activate the ring. That said, I think there's some debate as to teleportation and the conservation of momentum. I rule that teleporting halts prior momentum, but other DMs might not. In other words, if momentum is conserved and you've already fallen 50 ft, then even if you teleport to steady ground, you crash on it for 5d6 damage.
Feather fall is actually unique for a few reasons. One ,as of the introduction of immediate actions, became that instead of a free action. It is "reactionary." Immediate actions in some cases can even occur so instantly, they negate the effect that triggered them! Example: Close wounds can be cast as an immediate action to heal someone for 1d4 +CL hp. If you cast it on a creature that gets dropped to the negatives (dying) or even -10 or lower (dead), it can heal the damage before it takes effect and prevent those conditions from happening! (It's explicitly stated in that spell's description)
The other unique thing about Feather Fall, the ring at least, is that the text sort of makes it sound like the ring activates whether you want it to or not. My friend has a funny anectdote where he notices a lion down below a smal cliff and decides to leap down on it to get the jump, yelling out a battle cry. ...The Dm reminds him of hs ring of feather falling, and says the lion licks its lips...
I also wonder if the ring takes your immediate action (as casting the spell would), which would mean you lose your swift action the next round, and could be a pain at least to spellcasters, then.
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Maybe you should have started a new thread, but I'm interested in that too. A standard action should take half the round, right? Three seconds? And in three seconds you fall 9.8m/s/s /2 * 3 s * 3s , right? Which is 44 meters or 145 feet, right? So if the pit were 150 feet deep, you should have time even without a contingency spell, right?
Well, to be safe, could always require enough fall time for a full round. But barring that, a standard action is more than half a round -- it's worth more than a move action, which you can take 2 of in a round. So if I had to assign it a "time" I'd say 4 seconds, but that's more turning abstraction into hard numbers than I would like to model...
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Maybe you should have started a new thread, but I'm interested in that too. A standard action should take half the round, right? Three seconds? And in three seconds you fall 9.8m/s/s /2 * 3 s * 3s , right? Which is 44 meters or 145 feet, right? So if the pit were 150 feet deep, you should have time even without a contingency spell, right?
I probably should have started a new thread. This was a question that came up in the same game so I used the same thread.
We had one in the group that was pretty good with math. He also came to a similar solution.
It was excellent thinking on the players part. I stopped to ask the others just to make sure it would be fair and within the rules.
Edit: The trap was sprung when walking across out of combat. There were no turns. I did give the monk a chance to grab the one falling but he failed. A failed reflex save and a failed grab seemed like enough attempts. The character survived the fall and then teleported back up.
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Standard action can't be quite 4 seconds, or a move action would be 2 seconds and you could take three in a round. Call it 3.5 seconds. Not that it matters.
I think the confusion came into play when the word supernatural was used for the other entries like enhanced arrows.
I'm almost afraid to ask this. Can you use a ring of teleport to save yourself from a 100ft pit trap? The group as a whole came to the conclusion that there would not be enough reaction time to activate the ring. Feather Fall is meant to work at these times but not a teleport.
I think the Sage Advice suggestion on falling is 500 feet per round. As for taking actions while falling I guess it would depend on whether you fell during your turn or another person's turn.
If you fell during another person turn I'd say no because using the item isn't an immediate action.
If you fall during your turn and still have a standard action then I don't really see why not. It may not be what's intended by the rules, though I haven't really checked up. I guess it really matters on why as a DM you are using the pit trap, whether to challenge the PC's or to deplete resources. Or a combination of the two.
Plus it's not like teleport doesn't have risk of it's own.
You need to specify which die belongs to which attack so you can incorporate the appropriate attack modifiers.
What I do when I'm playing a character with multiple iterative attacks is to use color coded dice (yellow, orange, red, purple, blue, green). Each one applies to one of the attacks (i.e. yellow is for the first attack, orange for the second, and so on).
When I am running a game, I encourage my players to do the same, at the point that one of the results drops an opponent (or really, whenever the player feels like) the remaining attacks (dice whose results have not been resolved, yet) are applied to a different target.
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I'm almost afraid to ask this. Can you use a ring of teleport to save yourself from a 100ft pit trap? The group as a whole came to the conclusion that there would not be enough reaction time to activate the ring. Feather Fall is meant to work at these times but not a teleport.
I would probably have ruled the same way. If I was feeling particularly generous, and if the ring of teleportation had a number of charges (or charges per day, or whatever), then I might have allowed the character to expend a charge on his ring for a bonus to the save.
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Each one applies to one of the attacks (i.e. yellow is for the first attack, orange for the second, and so on).
I would suggest ROYGBIV order. You want it to be simple. Or... I have a 2-inch 20-sider, if I could find a couple more sized between that one and a normal one it would be obvious which are which. Then when I played a monk I'd have to get one of those little tiny crystal ones for the fifth die.
The idea of splitting the difference by blowing a charge for a bonus to the save is a really good ruling.
Right. You specify your target and attack... if you have attacks left, specify new targets and roll the attack rolls.
Btw: Aeson, there was an old AD&D rule somewhere that all attacks have to be against one target... you're by far not the only one here that has ghosts of old rulesets haunting your game
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