Also, with all that intelligence the lich is likely to understand that having its buffs dispelled will be disastrous, so give it at least one Ring of Counterspelling with Greater Dispel Magic cast into it, and cast new ones in as needed.
As for picking Necromancy as a barred school, this is an interesting choice. I wouldn't do it personally because it feels like you should have to be able to cast Necromancy spells in order to become a lich. There's nothing in the rules about having to be able to cast Necromancy spells to create a phylactery though, so it's a rules-legal option.
I wouldn't bar necromancy, but just would not be a necromantic specialist.
and, one feature of the archmage prestige class is counterspelling mastery that allows him to not only counterspell something cast at him, but also turn the spell back on its caster. So, a targeted dispel magic would not only be countered, but would (in turn) be cast upon the PC, potentially dispelling several of the PCs buffing spells.
and, one feature of the archmage prestige class is counterspelling mastery that allows him to not only counterspell something cast at him, but also turn the spell back on its caster. So, a targeted dispel magic would not only be countered, but would (in turn) be cast upon the PC, potentially dispelling several of the PCs buffing spells.
There is just one problem - counterspelling itself is generally quite sub-par and deemed a serious waste of a good standard action. You are wasting an action not doing anything, and you getting to act hinges on the PC spellcaster doing something. If he catches on, he can simply opt to do nothing, while the rest of his party closes in.
IMO, it really only becomes worth it at lv27, when your caster can access the epic counterspell feat (which lets you counterspell an unlimited number of times each round as free actions).
Also note that spell power was revised to now give +1 caster lv instead of improving your spell DCs.
The PCs have the advantage with their 4-5 actions to the wizard's one each round, so you need to even the odds (typically by attempting to spam as many spells as you can). Make sure you are able to manage 1 quickened spell each round, and you can never have enough timestops to cast those crucial spells (this is where archmage's SLA power comes in handy).
Consider judicious use of sculpted spells (fairly undercosted for its benefit, IMO) so you can consistently catch at least 4 PCs in the AoE of whatever you are throwing at them.
I also don't see why you can't simply timestop, then dump multiple forcecages on key PCs (it is not a targetted spell, so you can use it to contain dangerous PCs even in a timestop). Only maze is subject to such a limitation. Whether you should, however, is another matter altogether...
Some conventional defenses include greater mirror image + displacement (quickened if need be), stoneskin (sucks, but it helps ward against silver weapons).
You may also want to prepare at least 1 celerity as a last-minute middle finger to the PCs (ie: when you could die, celerity - timestop - spam as many spells as you can before teleporting away).
You also don't really have that much hp (average 130hp for a cr22). Might want to find a means of boosting that somehow (eg: improved toughness, various sources of temp hp, desecrate aura).
You could also consider procuring that diamond mind maneuver which lets you substitute a fort save with a concentration check (if only to hedge against disintegrate).
Yep, playing a high lv wizard is like some sort of chess game. You need to identify the potential threats and nip them in the bud before they can even take root.
There is just one problem - counterspelling itself is generally quite sub-par and deemed a serious waste of a good standard action. You are wasting an action not doing anything, and you getting to act hinges on the PC spellcaster doing something. If he catches on, he can simply opt to do nothing, while the rest of his party closes in.
IMO, it really only becomes worth it at lv27, when your caster can access the epic counterspell feat (which lets you counterspell an unlimited number of times each round as free actions).
Also note that spell power was revised to now give +1 caster lv instead of improving your spell DCs.
The PCs have the advantage with their 4-5 actions to the wizard's one each round, so you need to even the odds (typically by attempting to spam as many spells as you can). Make sure you are able to manage 1 quickened spell each round, and you can never have enough timestops to cast those crucial spells (this is where archmage's SLA power comes in handy).
Consider judicious use of sculpted spells (fairly undercosted for its benefit, IMO) so you can consistently catch at least 4 PCs in the AoE of whatever you are throwing at them.
I believe there is an epic feat that would allow them to cast a 2nd quickened spell each round. Added on - the feat is "Multispell" and the prerequisite is the ability to cast level 9 arcane or divine spells and the Quicken Spell metamagic feat.
Last edited by Bungus; 2nd July 2009 at 04:22 PM..
Reason: found the info
You may also want to prepare at least 1 celerity as a last-minute middle finger to the PCs (ie: when you could die, celerity - timestop - spam as many spells as you can before teleporting away).
And, good idea on celerity as well. Being undead, would the lich be immune to the dazing after-effect as well? Or, with Time Stop, it would then take the first round of time stopping to recover from the Daze?
Are you sure on the book Lords of Madness? I opened it up to pages 25, 26 and 27 and it speaks of aboleth society? In looking through the ToC, I did not see any sections on undead & fell feats? Do I have the wrong version?
thx
My bad- I said Lords of Madness when I should have said Libris Mortis!
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I also don't see why you can't simply timestop,
In the module, Vecna Lives!, Timestop is one of the tactics used by a certain lich in the beginning of the module...
If you have access to it and haven't run it, you might want to mine it for ideas.
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You also don't really have that much hp (average 130hp for a cr22). Might want to find a means of boosting that somehow (eg: improved toughness, various sources of temp hp, desecrate aura).
I have always loved using high-level & believable illusions to have the party expend some of their efforts on a fake lich (while it buffs and considers targets). Every bit of damage directed at the fake- especially if done by spells- is damage your lich doesn't take.
I have always loved using high-level & believable illusions to have the party expend some of their efforts on a fake lich (while it buffs and considers targets). Every bit of damage directed at the fake- especially if done by spells- is damage your lich doesn't take.
The problem with illusions is that one PC with True Seeing can foil even a level 9 illusion, and the players have been attacked by enough invisible and/or illusory foes that True Seeing is standard procedure for at least one PC.
In the module, Vecna Lives!, Timestop is one of the tactics used by a certain lich in the beginning of the module...
If you have access to it and haven't run it, you might want to mine it for ideas.
Thanks - I will lok up Vecna Lives. I'm starting to like the Time Stop idea combined with the Forcecages... "You're walking down a silent and darkened hallway, your footsteps echoing in the quiet. You see a shadowy figure in the distance, and before you can even raise your voice at it, let alone blink, suddenly, you are imprisoned in a shimmering prison with bars of force."
And, since Dimensional Lock lasts days per level and the lich might know they are coming, it could set up the forcecages on top of an area that is dimensionally locked.
Granted, the PCs can get out with a Disintergrate, but it could blast them with a damage spell while waiting for the Disintergrate (assuming el lich-o has a damage spell readied for the end of the Time Stop... BTW, does the caster know how many rounds it lasts, the d4+1?)
Last edited by Bungus; 4th July 2009 at 12:33 AM..
Reason: fixed some typing
Granted, the PCs can get out with a Disintergrate, but it could blast them with a damage spell while waiting for the Disintergrate (assuming el lich-o has a damage spell readied for the end of the Time Stop... BTW, does the caster know how many rounds it lasts, the d4+1?)
With a force cage with openings, Gaseous Form, sufficient Escape Artist checks, polymorph, could all get out of it, and that's just off the top of my head.
There is nothing to indicate that the caster knows how long their Time Stop lasts. A greater metamagic rod of maximise spell might maximise the d4 roll, but that depends on your interpretation of "variable, numeric effect".
With a force cage with openings, Gaseous Form, sufficient Escape Artist checks, polymorph, could all get out of it, and that's just off the top of my head.
There is nothing to indicate that the caster knows how long their Time Stop lasts. A greater metamagic rod of maximise spell might maximise the d4 roll, but that depends on your interpretation of "variable, numeric effect".
Any other suggestions on what the lich could do while time is stopped? If it puts up 2 force cages, it would still take the PCs time to bring the forcecages down. I can't target the PCs with damage spells or ability drain spells, or charm/domination spells.
Any other suggestions on what the lich could do while time is stopped? If it puts up 2 force cages, it would still take the PCs time to bring the forcecages down. I can't target the PCs with damage spells or ability drain spells, or charm/domination spells.
It depends. If the lich knows how threatening the party is it might open with Time Stop, Gate, Wall of Force to buy some time to buff up while the party fights a balor or whatever the lich wants to call in. If the party is threatening but not worth the XP cost of a calling version of Gate, it can just use the Time Stop to buff up (provided it doesn't use some sort of divination every morning to find out whether it should cast any short-term buffs that day and if so when, or otherwise have information about exactly when the party will be showing up) or summon a bunch of minions with Summon Monster spells, or Create Greater Undead, or Symbol of Insanity, or Prismatic Sphere, or Mind Fog or other cloud conjurations that do nasty things... and that's just quickly browsing the PHB spell list.
Or a personal favourite of mine: Time Stop. Dimension Door out of Line of Sight of the party (but: within line of sight of where it was standing, more than True Seeing range away), Quickened Invisibility and Project Image of itself where it was standing the next round (this guarantees that the lich can pull it off within 2 rounds, which is the minimum duration of Time Stop). Take the skill trick from Complete Scoundrel that makes one spell "read" as another with spellcraft and have it seem to cast Mislead instead of Time Stop. True Seeing dude sees that it is only an illusion, confirming that Mislead was what was cast... but somehow the lich can't be seen with True Seeing. The party is likely to be confused by this tactic (if Mind Blank or Nondetection defeats True Seeing in your rules interpretation, that's what they are likely to assume has happened, provided they know about that interaction) and will probably (assuming they make their Spellcraft check) ignore the Projected Image for long enough that the Lich can buff up and then start taking the party on from the Projected Image.
It depends. If the lich knows how threatening the party is it might open with Time Stop, Gate, Wall of Force to buy some time to buff up while the party fights a balor or whatever the lich wants to call in. If the party is threatening but not worth the XP cost of a calling version of Gate, it can just use the Time Stop to buff up (provided it doesn't use some sort of divination every morning to find out whether it should cast any short-term buffs that day and if so when, or otherwise have information about exactly when the party will be showing up) or summon a bunch of minions with Summon Monster spells, or Create Greater Undead, or Symbol of Insanity, or Prismatic Sphere, or Mind Fog or other cloud conjurations that do nasty things... and that's just quickly browsing the PHB spell list.
Or a personal favourite of mine: Time Stop. Dimension Door out of Line of Sight of the party (but: within line of sight of where it was standing, more than True Seeing range away), Quickened Invisibility and Project Image of itself where it was standing the next round (this guarantees that the lich can pull it off within 2 rounds, which is the minimum duration of Time Stop). Take the skill trick from Complete Scoundrel that makes one spell "read" as another with spellcraft and have it seem to cast Mislead instead of Time Stop. True Seeing dude sees that it is only an illusion, confirming that Mislead was what was cast... but somehow the lich can't be seen with True Seeing. The party is likely to be confused by this tactic (if Mind Blank or Nondetection defeats True Seeing in your rules interpretation, that's what they are likely to assume has happened, provided they know about that interaction) and will probably (assuming they make their Spellcraft check) ignore the Projected Image for long enough that the Lich can buff up and then start taking the party on from the Projected Image.
Thanks - the lich has a lair, so the party will be engaged by some minions in the beginning, anyhow. Once the minions are engaged, the lich will be able to judge the party's strengths and buff up, when needed.
Good idea on foiling the True Seeing with the skill trick. Thanks!
You can also consider summoning monsters during timestop. Look out for those with a ton of SLAs usable at-will to spam. Bone devils (SM7) can be pretty obscene. With SM9, you can summon 1d4+1 of them, and have them all spam wall of ice every round to clog up the battlefield.
A colossal centipede is not a bad idea for grappling the spellcaster (assuming there is sufficient room in your lair and the wizard does not already have freedom of movement).
Elementals appear to have the most hp (if you need meatshields). This should help take the heat off you and give you sufficient breathing room to cast your other key spells.
You can also consider summoning monsters during timestop. Look out for those with a ton of SLAs usable at-will to spam. Bone devils (SM7) can be pretty obscene. With SM9, you can summon 1d4+1 of them, and have them all spam wall of ice every round to clog up the battlefield.
A colossal centipede is not a bad idea for grappling the spellcaster (assuming there is sufficient room in your lair and the wizard does not already have freedom of movement).
Elementals appear to have the most hp (if you need meatshields). This should help take the heat off you and give you sufficient breathing room to cast your other key spells.
good idea - summon monster 9 to get several bone devils, then cast something that prevents the good guys from summoning their own allies.
If the lich summoned a balor, does it still explode for 100 pts of damage upon its "death", or is that only for its real death, and not when it is summoned/called?
Last edited by Bungus; 5th July 2009 at 03:26 PM..
Reason: Added a question
good idea - If the lich summoned a balor, does it still explode for 100 pts of damage upon its "death", or is that only for its real death, and not when it is summoned/called?
According to my interpretation of the rules text for Gate, if you use Gate to call in a Balor it will be just as if the Balor travelled to the Prime Material Plane through normal planar travel, and hence will do its death throes properly upon expiring.
It depends. If the lich knows how threatening the party is it might open with Time Stop, Gate, Wall of Force to buy some time to buff up while the party fights a balor or whatever the lich wants to call in. If the party is threatening but not worth the XP cost of a calling version of Gate, it can just use the Time Stop to buff up (provided it doesn't use some sort of divination every morning to find out whether it should cast any short-term buffs that day and if so when, or otherwise have information about exactly when the party will be showing up) or summon a bunch of minions with Summon Monster spells, or Create Greater Undead, or Symbol of Insanity, or Prismatic Sphere, or Mind Fog or other cloud conjurations that do nasty things... and that's just quickly browsing the PHB spell list.
Or a personal favourite of mine: Time Stop. Dimension Door out of Line of Sight of the party (but: within line of sight of where it was standing, more than True Seeing range away), Quickened Invisibility and Project Image of itself where it was standing the next round (this guarantees that the lich can pull it off within 2 rounds, which is the minimum duration of Time Stop). Take the skill trick from Complete Scoundrel that makes one spell "read" as another with spellcraft and have it seem to cast Mislead instead of Time Stop. True Seeing dude sees that it is only an illusion, confirming that Mislead was what was cast... but somehow the lich can't be seen with True Seeing. The party is likely to be confused by this tactic (if Mind Blank or Nondetection defeats True Seeing in your rules interpretation, that's what they are likely to assume has happened, provided they know about that interaction) and will probably (assuming they make their Spellcraft check) ignore the Projected Image for long enough that the Lich can buff up and then start taking the party on from the Projected Image.
Good ideas there - I like the Wall of Force and Balrog gate-in idea. Unless the players know they're going up against the lich, they will think the Balrog is the main opponent they're up against. The players focus all their attacks, spells, etc on the balrog, and when they finally defeat it and survive the exploding balrog, in walks the lich to finish off the weakened party.
And, your second idea is pretty devious. I like it.
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Good ideas there - I like the Wall of Force and Balrog gate-in idea. Unless the players know they're going up against the lich, they will think the Balrog is the main opponent they're up against. The players focus all their attacks, spells, etc on the balrog, and when they finally defeat it and survive the exploding balrog, in walks the lich to finish off the weakened party.
And, your second idea is pretty devious. I like it.
good point on the players thinking the balor is the main foe.
Another idea - since the LICH is immune to poison and disease..what about stocking the lich's lair with yellow mold and every other kind of toxic subtance which the players will be forced to step on, breathe etc....
An illusionist lich can be very annoying. We fought one once in 1st ed. and I am *still* not certain that we really killed it and really destroyed its phylactery.
And how can one not love Project Image as a way to draw some Novas out of the way?
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