On a somewhat unrelated sidenote, a storm giant sorc20 would be cr24 thanks to the non-associated rules. Throw in practiced spellcaster and he manages caster lv 24, same as a sorc24 or wiz24...
Exactly what sort of cr range are we looking at for this lich?
Another idea - since the LICH is immune to poison and disease..what about stocking the lich's lair with yellow mold and every other kind of toxic subtance which the players will be forced to step on, breathe etc....
Thanks - good idea. Maybe even some poisonous zombies. The players think they're just mostly harmless zombies, then bam, then start making poison saves.
An illusionist lich can be very annoying. We fought one once in 1st ed. and I am *still* not certain that we really killed it and really destroyed its phylactery.
And how can one not love Project Image as a way to draw some Novas out of the way?
Standard procedure for my players is that they put up True Seeing in any sort of threatening situation, since they've run into illusions before. So, a projected image would be seen through pretty quick. Though, the skill trick idea from above was an interesting way around it by making the party think the lich cast Mislead instead.
On a somewhat unrelated sidenote, a storm giant sorc20 would be cr24 thanks to the non-associated rules. Throw in practiced spellcaster and he manages caster lv 24, same as a sorc24 or wiz24...
Exactly what sort of cr range are we looking at for this lich?
24 might be too high - I was thinking a level 19-20 wizard with the lich template, making it CR21 or CR22. It's a large level 18 party.
Another idea - since the LICH is immune to poison and disease..what about stocking the lich's lair with yellow mold and every other kind of toxic subtance which the players will be forced to step on, breathe etc....
Brutally brilliant!
I could even see it letting itself become a "carrier" of a lethal mold or 2, adding to its fearsomeness.
Player: "Why does that lich look like its wearing a puffy patchwork yellow, brown and green sweater ?"
DM: "Bad tailor, perhaps? Heh, heh, heh..."
Quote:
Or Wu Jen Lich, or Beguiller Lich. A Warlock Lich would be easier to run, but significanly less powerful.
A Bard Lich would be weird.
Alternative builds can be quite dismaying to the party...
I did one that was a SpecWiz Necro/Shaman (OA) who, among other things, relied more heavily upon touch-attack spells...which he delivered with his Unarmed Strikes. This meant that those it struck had to deal with 1) the spell effect, 2) the unarmed strike damage (boosted by 1d8+5 by the Lich's negative energy channeling), and 3) the lich's Paralyzing Touch.
(And had I coupled all that with wearing mold as suggested above...)
A BttlSorc or WarMage Lich could also be a bit of a rude surprise, standing there in its magical Mithril Plate (having taken the Battle Caster feat). They may even think its a Deathknight...
I can't say I've ever done a Bard Lich, but I have done a Bard Vampire. I know, kind of cliche.
Or, "He's dead guys, what does he care about fashion?"
Barbarian PC: "I charge & attempt to grapple the lich!"
Me: "Roll me some Fort saves..."
Of course, at level 18, most of them will make DC:15 Fort saves in their sleep.
While that is true, there are ways to drop their save bonuses.
But the real reason to do it is to disrupt their thought processes. Its a surprise- potentially a nasty one if someone rolls a "1"- and it will make them rethink their tactics...especially if they don't know they're rolling against DC:15 or why they're doing it. If all they know is that Brak the Barbarian had to make 3-5 Fort rolls- which he probably succeeds at doing- just grappling the Lich, they'll still have a "WHOA!" reaction.
Any ACTUAL result from the "Sweater O Doom" is just gravy.
While that is true, there are ways to drop their save bonuses.
But the real reason to do it is to disrupt their thought processes. Its a surprise- potentially a nasty one if someone rolls a "1"- and it will make them rethink their tactics...especially if they don't know they're rolling against DC:15 or why they're doing it. If all they know is that Brak the Barbarian had to make 3-5 Fort rolls- which he probably succeeds at doing- just grappling the Lich, they'll still have a "WHOA!" reaction.
Any ACTUAL result from the "Sweater O Doom" is just gravy.
Just to backtrack a moment...another thought about the sartorially challenged Lich.
Much like the one in armor, they may not recognize it for what it is, so they may be taken completely off-guard when it does its alpha strike.
While they're taking time figuring out what they're fighting, the Lich isn't pulling any punches...
They'll know a bit about what to expect going in, but once they start encountering undead minions, they'll be even more likely to figure out what is coming.
Location: On a Persian carpet on a certain Island in the South Pacific....
Posts: 3,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungus
They'll know a bit about what to expect going in, but once they start encountering undead minions, they'll be even more likely to figure out what is coming.
Undead minions??! Last Lich in a game I ran was a Druid conjurer specialist, summoning up demonic vegetation. Who knew spinach & broccoli with templates would freak out players
__________________ DnD didn't make the last save.
"If only nerdrage could be harnessed, the world would have all the renewable energy it would ever need."
-- Reigan
Undead minions??! Last Lich in a game I ran was a Druid conjurer specialist, summoning up demonic vegetation. Who knew spinach & broccoli with templates would freak out players
That sounds interesting, but I do like the Time Stop & Gate in a Balor idea from above. Then, the lich moves out of view while the balor fights the party and casts all of his buffing spells.
In the module, Vecna Lives!, Timestop is one of the tactics used by a certain lich in the beginning of the module...
If you have access to it and haven't run it, you might want to mine it for ideas.
Keeping in mind of course that this encounter is (a) in a 2nd Edition module firmly cemented in Greyhawk and (b) expressly meant to result in a TPK (the module even tells the DM to cheat like crazy to ensure it) against some very special "guest star" PCs: Tenser, Bigby, Otiluke, Rary, Drawmij, Otto, Nystul, and Jallarzi, the then-current Circle of Eight. The deaths of these characters and their subsequent revival via cloning is even Greyhawk canon, AFAIK. The adventure continues with their sidekicks.
Cool module though. I bumped the "guest stars" up a few levels when I ran the thing and still managed the TPK without fudging a single die roll. Tenser managed to survive the longest, because I'd given him time stop as well and he realized he needed to use it.
Keeping in mind of course that this encounter is (a) in a 2nd Edition module firmly cemented in Greyhawk and (b) expressly meant to result in a TPK (the module even tells the DM to cheat like crazy to ensure it) against some very special "guest star" PCs: Tenser, Bigby, Otiluke, Rary, Drawmij, Otto, Nystul, and Jallarzi, the then-current Circle of Eight. The deaths of these characters and their subsequent revival via cloning is even Greyhawk canon, AFAIK. The adventure continues with their sidekicks.
Cool module though. I bumped the "guest stars" up a few levels when I ran the thing and still managed the TPK without fudging a single die roll. Tenser managed to survive the longest, because I'd given him time stop as well and he realized he needed to use it.
Exactly right- when I ran it, I had the opening sequence delivered as a kind of "psychic message," and the players used their own PCs to run the rest of the adventure.
A final aside on the "moldy" lich- properly designed, it will have a tactical advantage over the True Seeing party. If the lich is covered with enough mold to obscure its form, and it uses spells without somatic components (incl. those with still spell) or SLAs, the party will never know that the unmoving pile of detritus is kicking their butts.
Keeping in mind of course that this encounter is (a) in a 2nd Edition module firmly cemented in Greyhawk and (b) expressly meant to result in a TPK (the module even tells the DM to cheat like crazy to ensure it) against some very special "guest star" PCs: Tenser, Bigby, Otiluke, Rary, Drawmij, Otto, Nystul, and Jallarzi, the then-current Circle of Eight. The deaths of these characters and their subsequent revival via cloning is even Greyhawk canon, AFAIK. The adventure continues with their sidekicks.
Cool module though. I bumped the "guest stars" up a few levels when I ran the thing and still managed the TPK without fudging a single die roll. Tenser managed to survive the longest, because I'd given him time stop as well and he realized he needed to use it.
Thanks for the tip - I do not really wish to have a TPK on my hands and cloned PCs running around.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
