Tome of Magic: The Binder (Questions)

Theroc · 1st July 2009, 12:52 AM

I was wondering if anyone on enworld had any particular experience playing a Binder (and not just a dip to get the ability damage healing for that one Warlock PrC[hellfire something or other])

Can a binder be an effective combatant in their own right, when compared with other classes, or is it best as smaller dip?

Additionally, if a Binder succeeds the Bind check, the Vestige holds no sway at all over the PC's behaviour, correct? I'm just making certain.

The idea of the class intrigued me, and I was thinking of playing one in the next game I have a chance... but I'm not really sure how to go about planning one, due to it's variety and such.

Alzrius · 1st July 2009, 02:15 AM

Theroc, my post isn't going to be very helpful in regards to the questions you raised, and I apologize ahead of time for that. However, I can't help but say this...

Secrets of Pact Magic is a third-party take on the binder (and indeed, the entire idea of binding spirits) that's MUCH better than what's in the Tome of Magic. Seriously, if you want to play a binder, this book offers you so much more in every regard. It even has a follow-up book, Villains of Pact Magic.

Definitely check it out if there's room in your gaming budget.

Dyson Logos · 1st July 2009, 03:53 AM

Read this as if I just posted exactly what Alzrius did.

Theroc · 1st July 2009, 04:19 AM

lol, well, I'll look into it, but I don't know if many DM's will be allowing the third party source.

Starbuck_II · 1st July 2009, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theroc

I was wondering if anyone on enworld had any particular experience playing a Binder (and not just a dip to get the ability damage healing for that one Warlock PrC[hellfire something or other])

Can a binder be an effective combatant in their own right, when compared with other classes, or is it best as smaller dip?

Additionally, if a Binder succeeds the Bind check, the Vestige holds no sway at all over the PC's behaviour, correct? I'm just making certain.

Correct.
Although, some Vestiges require you do certain things like one guy requires stealing to summom them.
Ignore Special Requirement feat helps get rid of this issues.

Quote:

The idea of the class intrigued me, and I was thinking of playing one in the next game I have a chance... but I'm not really sure how to go about planning one, due to it's variety and such.

Yeah, I found it fun. Mostly as a 6 level dip, but it can be fine withot dipping.

Theroc · 1st July 2009, 06:40 AM

Anyone have any tips for creating a Binder? I mean, I suppose that's sorta hard to do, given how widely vestiges range in style, but I'm sure there's some things that work better than others...

Trouvere · 1st July 2009, 08:42 AM

Consolidated Binder Handbook.

Dragonwriter · 1st July 2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theroc

Can a binder be an effective combatant in their own right, when compared with other classes, or is it best as smaller dip?

Yes and no... I know, not very helpful. To expand on that, they will never be as effective as a full BAB class at hitting things, but they have plenty of their own abilities to make up for that. It really depends on what style you want the Binder to be for that day.

Quote:

Additionally, if a Binder succeeds the Bind check, the Vestige holds no sway at all over the PC's behaviour, correct?

Yep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theroc

Anyone have any tips for creating a Binder? I mean, I suppose that's sorta hard to do, given how widely vestiges range in style, but I'm sure there's some things that work better than others...

You would have to choose a style first... Personally, I would go for Improved Binding at 1st level and snag one of the nicer 2nd level vestiges (Savnok is great if you are playing a bruiser, you will never have to buy armor, and see if you could retrain that once you hit 13 or 15). I would also go for getting into the Knight of the Sacred Seal PrC. It gives you better HP, BAB and some neat class features while still giving you the Soul Binding bonus.

A combo I like (while I haven't had the chance to play it) is this (in order of the multiple bindings): Savnok, Focalor, Eligor and 1 open (and buy and use the Tooth of Savnok). It gives you your own set of full plate armor, a useful ranged attack that will deal 7-8d6 damage with a decent save on it, and you can channel some elemental damage as well as having a nice little STR bonus. Of course, this is for a bruiser style character. For a sneaky guy, you might want stuff to go with Andromalius and Marchosias. It all depends on the style and what you expect to do that day.

Stalker0 · 3rd July 2009, 07:17 PM

I played a full binder for a while. A fun class, but definitely underpowered. I figured this out when my group had an intervention with me..."Hey man, we feel your character is under powered...".

I made some upgrades, allowing vestiges to switch more frequently and the like, and that seemed to work well.

Atlatl Jones · 3rd July 2009, 08:59 PM

I briefly played a Binder/Swordsage, and he was both lots of fun and quite powerful. The Paimon vestige is quite nasty when combined with Weapon Finesse and the shadow hand feat that allows you to use your Dex bonus for damage instead of Strength. The two or three levels of swordsage gave him some fun combat tricks, while his Binder level gave him solid grounding.

Theroc · 4th July 2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlatl Jones

I briefly played a Binder/Swordsage, and he was both lots of fun and quite powerful. The Paimon vestige is quite nasty when combined with Weapon Finesse and the shadow hand feat that allows you to use your Dex bonus for damage instead of Strength. The two or three levels of swordsage gave him some fun combat tricks, while his Binder level gave him solid grounding.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords yet... so I can't really use that, though if I ever get the book, I'll have to look into it.