Warlock/Sorcerer advice

[Theroc]

Okay, so I was asking earlier about Eldritch Disciple, and someone suggested I play an Eldritch Theurge instead. Well, I'm playing in another game, and decided to make a Warlock/Sorcerer to slide into Eldritch Theurge in if the game progressed enough for it to be possible.

Here are the parameters for the game:
Sources available for the game:
3.5 player's hand book
Complete Divine
Complete arcane
complete adventure
Complete Mage
monster manual 2
monster manual 4 edition
Heroes of horror
Deities and demigods
Races of the wild
Races of stone
Races of destiny
Arms and equipment guide

The D20 SRD is also available. I'd prefer to stick to sources I have access to, if possible, though I can branch out to races and such on Crystalkeep if needbe.

The ability generation was 4d6 Take highest 3...

Here is what I rolled:
4d6.takeHighest(3)=13, 4d6.takeHighest(3)=10, 4d6.takeHighest(3)=7, 4d6.takeHighest(3)=10, 4d6.takeHighest(3)=14, 4d6.takeHighest(3)=14

Starting level is level 2 with starting gold set at 400. We also begin with some starting gear, which is as follows:
Back Pack, Bedroll, Water skin, 4 day trail ration's, x2 torch, x1 cure light potion, 50 ft. rope

Any suggestions for starting this out? I was figured grabbing a greatspear and using hideous blow from Reach if monsters got to close, otherwise lobbing Eldritch Blasts or maybe a spell or two if they closed within melee range... but I was curious if anyone else had some good advice.

[StreamOfTheSky]

For stats...ouch. Good warrior stats, not even a single 15 is going to be rough for a caster...
Str 10 (or swap with wis)
Dex 13 (or swap with int*)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 7
Cha 14

*And if you plan to EVER raise int from 13 to 14 (nonmagically), just put a 14 in int to start, and 13 into con. Skill points aren't retroactive. Otherwis,e all levle up points ot charisma, and get +2/4/6 items for it ASAP.

I'd recommend starting in one of the classes 2 levels, rather than starting out spread thin. Since warlock gets better HD and (I think?) more skill points, start as Warlock 2.

For invocations, I always like Eldritch Spear + the spider climb one. If there are walls to climb on, many enemies become nearly helpless against you, or at least are unable to strike back at you. Obviously you trade out spider climb once you can get fell flight. Or...I guess sorcerer can give you flight, up to you. If using sorcerer for it, be sure to eventually swap out Fly when you can get Flight of the Dragon.

Lots of good invocation choices, though. The eldritch essences to sicken or shake are useful early on, too. I would avoid melee entirely. Hideous Blow won't make up for your crap AC and low hp in a melee fight. If you're really worried about it, be a human (if you weren't doing that already) and take the Able Learner feat (Races of Destiny) so you can buy your tumble ranks at a cheaper cost. In fact, sorcerer and warlock don't give a great skill selection anyway, so the feat might be useful for getting a bunch of skills.

Don't know what to say for gear. Maybe masterwork armor and shield.

[Darklone]

Agreed, don't take Hideous Blow, it's essentially useless. You provoke AoOs and hit worse. Polearm is a good idea ... but won't help long. Think about a shield, it won't disturb your eldritch blast too much. Focus on the damaging stuff, your DCs will be crap even with Ability Focus (eldritch blast).

Feats: Nothing beats the Fey heritage feats for warlocks. Your DR adds up and you can improve your DCs.

[irdeggman]

Take the heritage feat chain.

If non-evil go with fey chain, if evil go with fiendish.

The +1 to CL for Invocations is really handy against SL.

I am running a sorcerer/warlock with the fey chain and his Hideous Laughter spell is truely awsome. Fey Power (prerequisite Fey Heritage) gets you +1 CL with Enchantment spells in addition to the +1 for invocations.

I also picked up Fey skin at 3rd level (DR is always a nice thing to have).

Chose not go with "blaster type" due to setting and went with See the Unseen.

[Darklone]

If your DM approves: Spellcasting Prodigy mit help with your DC.

[Thanee]

You should ask the DM whether he allows you to roll another set of ability scores.

If not, maybe consider a pure Warlock. They don't really need high stats.

Bye
Thanee

[Shin Okada]

Ask your DM if you can use Dragon Magic. That one is a rare supplement which expands Warlock Invocations. Eldritch Glaive is far much better than hideous blow.

[Theroc]

Originally Posted by Thanee

You should ask the DM whether he allows you to roll another set of ability scores.

If not, maybe consider a pure Warlock. They don't really need high stats.

Bye
Thanee

I do intend to see if he'll allow it, though, I believe by RAW a reroll wouldn't be allowed.

As for Pure Warlock, the problem there is I had a progression in mind, and it's impossible via pure warlock(and half my invocations would be all but useless anyway, as many rider-on EB effects use a DC)

Aside from that, seems the Fey Chain+Able Learner are the major pieces of advice. The Spider Climb and Eldritch Spear sounds pretty nifty.

Darklone, what is Spellcasting Prodigy, and what is it's source?

[Dannyalcatraz]

War/Sorc?

1) Look at the Heritage feats for Sorcerers. I'd take the Infernal Heritage Sorc feat, followed by Infernal Sorc Howl: gotta love that Sonic damage...esp. since its an area of effect attack! It also is unaffected by ASF, grappling, etc.

Celestial heritage would also be a bit of a laugher from a RP perspective. Its damage is limited to affecting only evil critters, meaning you'd be able to do an AE attack that won't affect your partymates who are engaged in melee with your targets.

2) I would also probably go with some kind of polearm. If somebody grapples you...well...shout in their face (see above).

3) Take a close look at Reserve feats- another way to get use out of your spell levels without being concerned about ASF.

4) Consider the Battle Sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana if your DM will add it to the list you provided. If so, you'll give up a few spells/level in exchange for never worrying about ASF.

[aboyd]

Originally Posted by Theroc

Darklone, what is Spellcasting Prodigy, and what is it's source?

Spellcasting Prodigy got nerfed in 3.5 edition; it won't help with your casting DCs anymore. In 3.0 it did. I believe the feat appears in different books depending upon the version of D&D you're using. I think it went like this:

D&D 3.0: Forgotten Realms Guide - it gives you +2 to your spellcasting stat for purposes of determining your bonus spells and for purposes of determining your spell DCs.

D&D 3.5: Player's Guide to Faerun - it gives you +2 to your spellcasting stat for purposes of determining your bonus spells.

EDIT: The Spell Focus feat will add +1 to the DC for a particular school of spells. For example, if you wanted to be real blasty, you might take Spell Focus (Evocation) and then your Scorching Rays & Fireballs would be slightly harder to resist.

[Herobizkit]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

4) Consider the Battle Sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana if your DM will add it to the list you provided. If so, you'll give up a few spells/level in exchange for never worrying about ASF.

This. You're going to be lobbing Eldritch Blasts pretty much every fight, so you can use your Sorc spell levels for more interesting choices than raw damage (but don't forget those Orb spells, cheesy as they are). And if you REALLY need to get in to melee and mix it up, you won't be a total slouch.

[Theroc]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

War/Sorc?

1) Look at the Heritage feats for Sorcerers. I'd take the Infernal Heritage Sorc feat, followed by Infernal Sorc Howl: gotta love that Sonic damage...esp. since its an area of effect attack! It also is unaffected by ASF, grappling, etc.

Celestial heritage would also be a bit of a laugher from a RP perspective. Its damage is limited to affecting only evil critters, meaning you'd be able to do an AE attack that won't affect your partymates who are engaged in melee with your targets.

2) I would also probably go with some kind of polearm. If somebody grapples you...well...shout in their face (see above).

3) Take a close look at Reserve feats- another way to get use out of your spell levels without being concerned about ASF.

4) Consider the Battle Sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana if your DM will add it to the list you provided. If so, you'll give up a few spells/level in exchange for never worrying about ASF.

1. The heritage feats seem to be a big hit, but I am trying to keep this character from being evil, revolving more around the Chaotic spectrum

2. Well, as a War/Sorc, my only option is Greatspear, really, seeing as the others are martial weapons.

3. This is why I'm taking sorcerer rather than Dread Necromancer (Dread Necromancer has Average BAB, proficiency with any one martial weapon [without the light or one handed restriction of battle sorcerer] and automatic ignore ASF for Light armor). I was looking more into the utility feats mostly, though was considering other ones to up my DC's... since mine will be abominable due to low stats(since the DM hasn't answered my request for a reroll yet).

4. I'm kinda assuming he is allowing it since he listed the SRD as a source.

As for Orb spells, aren't those in Spell Compendium? Or are they like in Complete Arcane too? (Haven't perused spell lists much, since this will be one of my first casters that need a 'spells known' listing)

[StreamOfTheSky]

Orb spells should be in C.Arcane as well as SpC. I mean, the warmage is in CA, and they get the orb spells...

[irdeggman]

Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky

Orb spells should be in C.Arcane as well as SpC. I mean, the warmage is in CA, and they get the orb spells...

Yup - for a "blaster" type warmage/warlock is much better combo than sorcerer/warlock.

Fey feat chain works best for enchantment oriented spellcasters (again Hideaous laughter is awesome) - but not on warmage's list.

But eldritch theurge won't help as much with a warmage since it only grants bonus spells and spells known for arcane casting class and warmage has a lot of class abilities that are worth getting.

What role are you looking for with your character?

[Theroc]

Originally Posted by irdeggman

What role are you looking for with your character?

Well, I primarily wanted the Sorcerer side of things to be able to cover the utility spells, with a few blaster spells (particularly later to place as rider-on effects onto my Eldritch blasts... such as a Wail of the Banshee Spellblast[If the game progresses that far]), but primarily the Sorcerer spells would be for more utility purposes and for powering utility reserve feats... at least, that's what I had in mind.

Edit: As for a specific role, I hadn't fully conjured his part role, since the party wasn't fully composed yet. Figuring with the Warlock's Deceive Item and such he can use wands to fill any small gaps. The group already has a Wizard Cleric(who is channeling negative energy and rebuking undead and a specialized Necromancer AFAIK) who is heading for the True Necromancer PrC. Not sure about the rest of the party, as generation hasn't gone too far, though I believe the DM is playing a fighter in the adventure as well.

[irdeggman]

Originally Posted by Theroc

Well, I primarily wanted the Sorcerer side of things to be able to cover the utility spells, with a few blaster spells (particularly later to place as rider-on effects onto my Eldritch blasts... such as a Wail of the Banshee Spellblast[If the game progresses that far]), but primarily the Sorcerer spells would be for more utility purposes and for powering utility reserve feats... at least, that's what I had in mind.

Edit: As for a specific role, I hadn't fully conjured his part role, since the party wasn't fully composed yet. Figuring with the Warlock's Deceive Item and such he can use wands to fill any small gaps. The group already has a Wizard Cleric(who is channeling negative energy and rebuking undead and a specialized Necromancer AFAIK) who is heading for the True Necromancer PrC. Not sure about the rest of the party, as generation hasn't gone too far, though I believe the DM is playing a fighter in the adventure as well.

Be careful with the eldritch theurge progression - like most of the other ones it only progresses invocations known/damage and CL. You do not gain any other class abilites - like imbue item, fiendish resilience or energy resistance and the warlock's DR doesn't go up due to class levels.

It will take a while to gain any spells on the sorcerer side that you can use utility reserve feats for though.

You also get detect magic as an at-will warlock ability (which is really, really handy)

You do need to boost your charisma in order to make good use of deceive item.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Originally Posted by Theroc

1. The heritage feats seem to be a big hit, but I am trying to keep this character from being evil, revolving more around the Chaotic spectrum

Actually, the Heritage feats don't have alignment prereqs...at least not the Draconic, Celestial or Infernal ones, as I recall.

(The ones from the Planar Handbook may differ.)

In addition, if you have the Draconomicon, there are some Draconic feats that are similar to the Reserve feats, doing things like letting you fling electrical orbs instead of using the Electrical breath weapon...

2. Well, as a War/Sorc, my only option is Greatspear, really, seeing as the others are martial weapons.

Greatspear is an Exotic weapon- I think you mean longspear, right?

At any rate, if you go for a reach weapon build, I'd still consider burning a feat on a quality reach weapon at some point, be it martial or exotic.

In addition, with a Quiver of Ehlonna (a.k.a. Efficient Quiver), a high-dex caster based on casting rays, orbs and other ranged touch attacks can become a mini-howitzer. Since the other feats for that build are Point-Blank Shot and Precise shot, you'll get full benefit of those feats with your spears, javelins and X-bow bolts in the Quiver...and in this particular case, your Eldritch Blast. (And certain Reserve feats as well.)

I don't know if your group uses the DCv1 at all, but its full of polearms- many updated all the way from AD&D- and polearm feats as well.

[Theroc]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

Actually, the Heritage feats don't have alignment prereqs...at least not the Draconic, Celestial or Infernal ones, as I recall.

(The ones from the Planar Handbook may differ.)

In addition, if you have the Draconomicon, there are some Draconic feats that are similar to the Reserve feats, doing things like letting you fling electrical orbs instead of using the Electrical breath weapon...


Greatspear is an Exotic weapon- I think you mean longspear, right?

At any rate, if you go for a reach weapon build, I'd still consider burning a feat on a quality reach weapon at some point, be it martial or exotic.

In addition, with a Quiver of Ehlonna (a.k.a. Efficient Quiver), a high-dex caster based on casting rays, orbs and other ranged touch attacks can become a mini-howitzer. Since the other feats for that build are Point-Blank Shot and Precise shot, you'll get full benefit of those feats with your spears, javelins and X-bow bolts in the Quiver...and in this particular case, your Eldritch Blast. (And certain Reserve feats as well.)

I don't know if your group uses the DCv1 at all, but its full of polearms- many updated all the way from AD&D- and polearm feats as well.

Well, I wasn't dead set on a reach build, just figured I lob Eldritch Blasts till they got close, then nail them over the head. Kinda cool aesthetic, I suppose.

As for Heritage Feats, Fey Heritage requires "Non-Lawful", and Fiendish requires "Non-Good". Draconic requires nothing at all.

I don't know which books the other heritages are in, but the ones I know of are in Complete Arcane and Complete Mage. Unfortunately I don't have access to the Draconomicon yet.

And I've no idea what DCv1 is, but the group is a Play by Post group on Enworld, and it's not one of the DM's listed available sources, nor is it one I have access to.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Draconic, Celestial and Infernal Sorcerer Heritage are all devoid of alignment prereqs.

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/featsform.pl

And just FYI, DCv1 is Dragon Compendium vol. 1.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think longspear is actually a pretty good weapon, actually. Kinda low base damage, but after a while that doesn't matter much anyway. It gives you the reach and set vs. charge, and a decent crit (x3)...can't really ask for more from a simple weapon.

For heritage feats...I'd say go fey heritage or none at all. Fey seems pretty good, and you have plenty of other feat options. I guess draconic could work solely because of the sorcerer side. In particular, there's a draconic feat called Practical Metamagic to reduce the level cost of a metamagic feat you have by 1, even reducing it to +0 (but not below that)! Unlike the Easy Metamagic feat, which cannot bring the cost below +1. This can be useful if you specialize in an energy type, for example: Searing Spell (from Sandstorm) is a +1 to ignore all fire resistance and immunites of all but those with the fire subtype. That book's not allowed, but there are other nice options, like having all your sorcerer spells Still for free (making the armor issue moot). Doing that requires the PH2 variant or C.Mage feat to cast metamagic spontaneously w/o a time increase, though. And of course, Races of the Dragon for Practical Metamagic...

EDIT: According to the site Danny linked to, Practical is also limited to no less than +1 adjustment...Maybe my DM was inadvertently using a houserule...