Would Violate Spell & Corrupt Spell stack?

[Bungus]

Both are Metamagic feats from the Book of Vile Darkness. Corrupt spell makes a spell Evil and also changes half the damage to Unholy. So, a Corrupt fireball would be 5d6 of fire damage and 5d6 Unholy at the cost of 1 level.

Violate Spell is similar, but half the damage is Vile damage. So, a Violate fireball would be 5d6 of fire damage and 5d6 Vile, also at the cost of 1 level.

So, could the aforementioned evil lich from my other thread cast a Corrupted and Violate fireball that does 5d6 Unholy damage and 5d6 Vile damage at the cost of a level 5 slot?

I was thinking this to overcome things like Resist Energy and Protection from Energy that are pretty common spells for PCs.

[Ahnehnois]

I do not see any clear answer to this. Personally, I would apply the feats separately, so that the spell would deal half electricity and half unholy, half the electricity is vile and half the unholy is vile.

However, this does bring up the point that 'vile' is not a damage type in the traditional sense. Any type of damage can become 'vile' damage, so the fireball with just corrupt spell on it would deal 10d6 fire damage, half of which is vile fire damage and cannot be healed, the other half normal. A creature immune to fire would resist all of this.

Also, generally, the '1/2' is applied after rolling damage (rather than 5d6 of this and 5d6 of that, 10d6 and divide result by 2).

If you really want to beat resistance, energy substitution is probably the best thing to have, since it doesn't cost a spell level.

[green slime]

I would resolve it thusly:

Vile Corrupt Fireball does 5d6 fire damage, and 5d6 unholy damage (this bypasses any fire protection the character may have). Roll these damages.

Character rolls Reflex save. Half damage if made (obviously)

Reduce fire damage for any fire protection items / spells in place.

Check the amount of damage taken after saves and protection. Declare half that amount to be vile damage, iow, incapable of being healed except by magic within a hallowed or consecrated ground.

[Runestar]

To threadjack a little, since this thread brings up corrupt spell, what if we applied it to a spell which already does unholy damage, such as flamestrike? Will flamestrike now deal all unholy damage? (Assuming here that we can choose to affect the fire half of the damage dealt).

[green slime]

Originally Posted by Runestar

To threadjack a little, since this thread brings up corrupt spell, what if we applied it to a spell which already does unholy damage, such as flamestrike? Will flamestrike now deal all unholy damage? (Assuming here that we can choose to affect the fire half of the damage dealt).

To be honest, I have no clue. I can see several different (house)rulings for this:

1) You can't apply corrupt spell to flamestrike, the effect is already present.
2) A mathematical interpretation: the spell now does 75% unholy damage
3) All damage is now unholy.

Personally, on reflection, I'd go with 2.

[NewJeffCT]

Originally Posted by Ahnehnois

If you really want to beat resistance, energy substitution is probably the best thing to have, since it doesn't cost a spell level.

Psionic energy resistance applies to all energy types - fire, electricity, sonic, acid and cold - so, would render energy substitution useless, especially since the power can be manifested as an immediate action.

Energy Adaptation:

Your body assimilates some of the effect of an energy attack and converts it to harmless light. You gain resistance 10 against any attack that deals acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage.

When you absorb damage, you can choose to radiate visible light that illuminates a 60-foot radius for a number of rounds equal to the points of damage you successfully resisted, or merely dissipate the energy without giving off a visual display.

The energy resistance provided by this power increases to 20 points at 9th manifester level and to a maximum of 30 points at 13th level. The power protects your equipment as well.

The resistance provided by this power does not stack with other forms of energy resistance.

This power’s subtype is the same as the type of damage it protects against.

Augment: If you spend 4 additional power points, you can manifest this power as an immediate action.

[Bungus]

seems like there is no clear answer on this.

[StreamOfTheSky]

They're paying a spell level for each, I'd just let it completely replace the fire damage. *shrug*

As for the flame strike example, I'd say that's already part of the spell, and thus wouldn't apply. It'd be redundant, like using quicken spell on a spell that's already a swift action to cast.

[green slime]

Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky

They're paying a spell level for each, I'd just let it completely replace the fire damage. *shrug*

Except you're missing the point of Violate Spell. It isn't replacing the damage type.

A Fireball cast by a 10th+ level spellcaster does 10d6 fire damage.

A Violated Fireball cast by a 10th+ level spellcaster still does 10d6 fire damage, 5d6 of which is also vile damage. Another way of expressing this, is it does 5d6 fire damage, and 5d6 vile fire damage.

Vile damage does not change the source of the damage, rather changes the ease with which the damage may be healed.

This has consequences for creatures with various immunities, obviously: A Violated Fireball will still do no damage to a Red dragon, for instance.

[Bungus]

Originally Posted by green slime

Except you're missing the point of Violate Spell. It isn't replacing the damage type.

A Fireball cast by a 10th+ level spellcaster does 10d6 fire damage.

A Violated Fireball cast by a 10th+ level spellcaster still does 10d6 fire damage, 5d6 of which is also vile damage. Another way of expressing this, is it does 5d6 fire damage, and 5d6 vile fire damage.

Vile damage does not change the source of the damage, rather changes the ease with which the damage may be healed.

This has consequences for creatures with various immunities, obviously: A Violated Fireball will still do no damage to a Red dragon, for instance.

Thanks - I just looked that one up! You are correct in that a creature immune to fire would be immune to all the damage from a Violated fireball. Luckily, no psion in my group, so I can also add in an Energy Substitution (Cold) to overcome the standard fire resistance.

[Bungus]

Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky

They're paying a spell level for each, I'd just let it completely replace the fire damage. *shrug*

As for the flame strike example, I'd say that's already part of the spell, and thus wouldn't apply. It'd be redundant, like using quicken spell on a spell that's already a swift action to cast.

I was leaning towards that interpretation until green slime below corrected my interpretation of vile damage. The bad part of vile damage is that it can't be healed unless you're in an area that has been subjected to a Consecrate or Hallow spell, which are normally hard to come by within the lairs of liches.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ok, then yeah. If vile isn't changing the damage type, but just making it harder to heal, then a violated, corrupted fireball would do 5d6 unholy damage, and 5d6 fire damage. i would rule the fire damage half would count for the vile damage, and be harder to heal, but still resistable with fire resistance.

If there were two metamagic feats with level adjustments that actually both changed half the damage to another damage type, hypothetically, I would just allow them to completely overwrite the original damage type.