The party I'm DMing is at level 16 now, verging on level 17... while the group has two front line fighters that can get their AC up pretty high: the elf fighter/paladin/champion of Corellon can get up into the 50s and the dwarf fighter can get his up into the high 30s, the rest of the group is pretty easy for me to hit with my bad guys.
While there are spells and the like that can improve AC (Holy Aura being one, Haste being another, etc...) there are times when the group may get surprised and/or not have time to buff-up spellwise.
Much of the group has +3/+4 armor, but due to class restrictions (rogue, cleric of a nature goddess, barbarian) cannot wear heavier armor. Plus, the psion and sorcerer have no armor.
Most of the group also has Rings of Protection and/or Amulets of Natural Armor.
Are there any other sorts of magic items that can help to improve AC. I mean, even if I gave the cleric +5 studded leather and a ring of protection +5, she's still not going to have that great an AC. Some ogres with some levels of barbarian will hit her (and the psion and the sorcerer) pretty easily.
Any suggestions besides rings & amulets?
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
1) Own things that provide cover...like Tower Shields...or minions.
2) Feats that improve Natural Armor, like the Draconic Heritage feat, Draconic Skin.
3) Dip into classes that provide AC boosts. Usually, that means a PrCl.
4) Own items that boost stats that affect AC (usually Dex). Monk's Belts, Wands of Cat's Grace, etc. spring to mind.
5) Have someone in the party with Leadership try to attract a Marshal (or other aura-based class) follower who can boost Dex with their aura.
6) Judo the problem- prep spells, powers and the like that reduce the ability of your foes to hit you. Darkness, Blur, Blink, Mirror Image, etc., do not actually increase AC, but do so functionally. Stat drains vs Dex or Str- via Enervate, Knife to the Soul, etc.- do likewise.
You could have your sorc learn greater mirror image (PHB2). It can be cast as an immediate action, so it will be useful for when your sorc is attacked on another person's turn.
The psion can wear heavy armour (unless he is focused on ray attacks, in which case he would receive a rather stiff penalty), since his powers do not suffer from ASF. Assuming he has enough str, slap on a fullplate and heavy shield.
The cleric can try to simulate +5 armour for the party. Get his caster lv to 20 somehow (there are quite a few ways), then cast magic vestments on whatever armour needs augmenting. They pretty much last all day too. If you have chain spell, now is the time to use it. Good targets include a mithral buckler (and twillight mithral chainshirt, if you can procure one) for the sorc and fullplate/shield for the psion.
In the case of the cleric, maybe you can switch to bracers of armour, and wear a monk's belt for wis mod to AC? But this will prohibit the use of shields, so I am not sure if the net result will be any better.
Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor (+8 AC bonus, max dex bonus of +2, Armor check penalty of -6, ASF 25%).
Doesn't affect psionic powers - see Expanded Psionic book pg 175 for psychoactive skins.
Weighs 1# and can be shrunk with a thought (standard action to activate). Useful item for most classes that wear armor since it can be donned and removed so easily.
Real useful for a psion since psionics are not affected by wearing armor (specific in the rules pg 20 Expanded Psionic Handbook)
1) Own things that provide cover...like Tower Shields...or minions.
2) Feats that improve Natural Armor, like the Draconic Heritage feat, Draconic Skin.
3) Dip into classes that provide AC boosts. Usually, that means a PrCl.
4) Own items that boost stats that affect AC (usually Dex). Monk's Belts, Wands of Cat's Grace, etc. spring to mind.
5) Have someone in the party with Leadership try to attract a Marshal (or other aura-based class) follower who can boost Dex with their aura.
6) Judo the problem- prep spells, powers and the like that reduce the ability of your foes to hit you. Darkness, Blur, Blink, Mirror Image, etc., do not actually increase AC, but do so functionally. Stat drains vs Dex or Str- via Enervate, Knife to the Soul, etc.- do likewise.
Thanks - some good ideas. Unfortunately, we're at the stage of the campaign now that I see the group gaining maybe 1-2 more levels before the finale. So, PrCs are likely out.
Monk's Belt is a good idea, though, especially for the cleric with a 20 Wisdom.
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
You could have your sorc learn greater mirror image (PHB2). It can be cast as an immediate action, so it will be useful for when your sorc is attacked on another person's turn.
The psion can wear heavy armour (unless he is focused on ray attacks, in which case he would receive a rather stiff penalty), since his powers do not suffer from ASF. Assuming he has enough str, slap on a fullplate and heavy shield.
The cleric can try to simulate +5 armour for the party. Get his caster lv to 20 somehow (there are quite a few ways), then cast magic vestments on whatever armour needs augmenting. They pretty much last all day too. If you have chain spell, now is the time to use it. Good targets include a mithral buckler (and twillight mithral chainshirt, if you can procure one) for the sorc and fullplate/shield for the psion.
In the case of the cleric, maybe you can switch to bracers of armour, and wear a monk's belt for wis mod to AC? But this will prohibit the use of shields, so I am not sure if the net result will be any better.
Thanks - I think the sorcerer does have greater mirror image. The psion has not really worn any armor, so it would be a switch for him to use it now.
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
At high enough levels, AC almost becomes irrelevant, since most PCs will be hit on anything other than a 1 or 2. I would focus on items/spells/armor upgrades that give a miss chance, i.e. mirror image, greater mirror image, blur, displacement, invisibility, greater invisibility, blink, etc. The MIC has a number of armor upgrades that are well within the means of a high level party to purchase that provide a miss chance. Keep in mind that force weapons (a weapon enhancement from the MIC) are not subject to the miss chance that would normally apply to attacks made while blinking.
At high enough levels, AC almost becomes irrelevant, since most PCs will be hit on anything other than a 1 or 2. I would focus on items/spells/armor upgrades that give a miss chance, i.e. mirror image, greater mirror image, blur, displacement, invisibility, greater invisibility, blink, etc. The MIC has a number of armor upgrades that are well within the means of a high level party to purchase that provide a miss chance. Keep in mind that force weapons (a weapon enhancement from the MIC) are not subject to the miss chance that would normally apply to attacks made while blinking.
And True Seeing negates most of the illusion/sight-based miss-chances. Higher level outsiders and spell-casters tend to have True Seeing always on.
Upgrading AC is not entirely in bane even at higher level, as high AC may discourage opponents from using Power Attack and such.
__________________ Shin Okada (AKA Japanese Protocol Droid) My Webpage
And True Seeing negates most of the illusion/sight-based miss-chances. Higher level outsiders and spell-casters tend to have True Seeing always on.
Upgrading AC is not entirely in bane even at higher level, as high AC may discourage opponents from using Power Attack and such.
Yes, and it prevents the PCs from being hit by a level 8-10 barbarian or fighter "mook" type bad guy... as I would think a level 18-20 bad guy is going to have several level 10 fighters or barbarians as protection, especially if a cleric or wizard. Heck, my ogre mooks with 4 levels of barbarian from a few sessions back gave the party some trouble.
A level 10 fighter is +10 BAB, +4 for Strength, +2 for a magic sword, +2 for Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus... so, that is +18 to hit right there. Add in +2 for flanking or charging and you have PC with AC in the low 20s getting hit all the time.
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
The other reason to keep AC up is for iterative attacks. Even if the primary can reliably hit, if the monster or Fighter has another 3-6 attacks coming at a lower bonus, a little AC can be a bigger help than a higher hp score. And I've yet to find any exercise in increasing touch AC to not be worthwhile.
My online gaming group, Torch of Spirit (Contains all information for the current game I'm co-DMing as well as lots of houserules I'm using or considering for the future. Feel free to check it out.)
Just a thought here- not contradicting others' previous posts, but remember that just because True Seeing and other tactics are out there doesn't invalidate the value of illusion spells, etc., for the simple reason that not every NPC is going to have True Seeing.
If they do, then your DM is doing something screwy.
Just a thought here- not contradicting others' previous posts, but remember that just because True Seeing and other tactics are out there doesn't invalidate the value of illusion spells, etc., for the simple reason that not every NPC is going to have True Seeing.
If they do, then your DM is doing something screwy.
Nope, not every bad guy will have True Seeing. However, a lot of major bad guys will - major demons & devils, powerful spellcasters, etc.
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
Or you can have a truly nasty DM who makes sure that the bad guys have tremorsense, blindsight, or similar abilities that don't rely on normal senses so illusions don't help. Personally, I like Blink. Since I play core-only games primarily, the MiC isn't a factor (thank goodness!).
__________________ If this post mentions MapTool, here's the disclaimer: I am the site admin for RPTools.net and a sporadic code contributor. My only other relationship to them is being a happy customer!
You might want to look at armor made from various special materials. The Arms and Equipment Guide comes to mind in particular. Some of the special materials can allow you to do some unusual things if you have the gp to spend (as an example, consider plate mail made from dragon hide - a druid can wear that).
Your players might also look at spells that change their size. For spellslingers who don't fight (and archers too), this might be viable. Reduce Person is the obvious choice, although it only gives a small bonus. I want to say that there is a higher level version somewhere but can't recall where.
While on the subject of spells... there is an option that is often overlooked: developing new spells. Nothing says that the players can't create new spells which meet their protection needs.
Similar to the custom spells is custom magic items. There are feats scattered through a number of the books that give minor boosts to AC in one form or another which st. Magic items can grant feats. Obviously such items should be priced according to the AC improvement (and/or with the typical feat cost), but it might be a way to stack some other bonuses on.
Fight Defensively, Total Defense, and Aid Another. Anyone can do these and they are often overlooked as a tactic to boost AC.
Damage Reduction. Obviously at the level the players are at, getting classes which grant DR is probably out, but spells and magic that grant the ability isn't necessarily so. If you are going to be hit, try to reduce how much you take.
Cast spells that apply hit roll penalties to the enemy. If you've already maxed out your AC , spells which penalizes your opponent's attack rolls is like boosting everyone's AC. Sometimes this can be more effective than chucking a fireball.
Take another look at shields. A masterwork buckler or small shield (which all magic shields are) doesn't have an armor check penalty and thus won't even apply a non-proficiency penalty to attacks if worn by a non-proficient character. Add a +3 enhancement bonus and you're up another 4 points of AC for under 10k gp. If the hand needed for the shield is an issue, get the animated ability.
You might want to look at armor made from various special materials. The Arms and Equipment Guide comes to mind in particular. Some of the special materials can allow you to do some unusual things if you have the gp to spend (as an example, consider plate mail made from dragon hide - a druid can wear that).
Always be careful when using the Arms and Equipment Guide since it is a 3.0 book and some of the items will not transfer to 3.5 mechanics as is.
The party I'm DMing is at level 16 now, verging on level 17... while the group has two front line fighters that can get their AC up pretty high: the elf fighter/paladin/champion of Corellon can get up into the 50s and the dwarf fighter can get his up into the high 30s, the rest of the group is pretty easy for me to hit with my bad guys.
While there are spells and the like that can improve AC (Holy Aura being one, Haste being another, etc...) there are times when the group may get surprised and/or not have time to buff-up spellwise.
Much of the group has +3/+4 armor, but due to class restrictions (rogue, cleric of a nature goddess, barbarian) cannot wear heavier armor. Plus, the psion and sorcerer have no armor.
Most of the group also has Rings of Protection and/or Amulets of Natural Armor.
Are there any other sorts of magic items that can help to improve AC. I mean, even if I gave the cleric +5 studded leather and a ring of protection +5, she's still not going to have that great an AC. Some ogres with some levels of barbarian will hit her (and the psion and the sorcerer) pretty easily.
Any suggestions besides rings & amulets?
Gloves of dex +6, monk belt (I think this gives a bonus to AC), bracers of armor up to +6 (for those who do not wear armor), ioun stone to name a few.
The Psion can use Inertial Armor to get at least +11 Armor bonus to AC all day long.
The Cleric can use a Mithral Breastplate with Magic Vestment to get +10 to AC. Add Twilight (MIC), Nimbleness (MIC), and Feycraft (DMGII) and even the sorcerer can wear it. A Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt would be simpler though.
I'm surprised that the Cleric only has a 20 Wisdom at this level. Either he started out low, or he hasn't boosted it hardly at all. I don't know the power level of your game.
+1 AC = Dusty Rose Ioun Stone
+6 AC = Mithral Buckler +5
+8 AC = Bracers of Armor +8
+5 AC = Ring of Protection +5
+5 AC = Amulet of Natural Armor +5
+3 AC = Gloves of Dexterity +6
That's +28 to AC
10 Base + 28 = 38 AC
You can replace the shield with a Monk's Belt, a +6 WIS item, and a Force Shield ring. That will give you at least the same bonus, maybe more. And the Monk's Belt does give WIS to AC as it's listed under the AC Bonus ability of the Monk. The best part is that though it won't stack with armor, it will stack with Bracers of Armor.
__________________ Test your build for long term survival in the Core Coliseum.
Forgot your books? Try using Sovelior's SRD or the d20 SRD.
And until you do go for the full +8 bracers of armor, the eternal wands from magic item compendium are probably a cheaper alternative. Certainly, a CL 1 wand of Mage Armor is, only costing 820 gp for 2 hours/day of +4 force armor. Buy several or get a higher CL to cover the adventuring day. An eternal wand of Greater Mage Armor (level 3, Spell Compendium, hr/level +6 armor bonus) is fairly pricy, but is 10 hours (CL 5, 2 charges/day) of +6 armor, and still cheaper than bracers.
For any non-monks, even if their hands are full, they can get an animated (mithral, if need be) +5 shield to float around them for more AC.
EDIT: It's really not the main usage of the item, but boots of haste do give you 10 rounds of +1 AC per day.
My online gaming group, Torch of Spirit (Contains all information for the current game I'm co-DMing as well as lots of houserules I'm using or considering for the future. Feel free to check it out.)
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
