3.5 Cloistered Cleric design advice

[ScottB]

Hello,

I am working on a Cloistered Cleric build in 3.5. I have a lot of it worked out, but there is some wiggle room regarding feats (and stats). I wondered if anyone could give me their advice or suggestions.

Currently, I'm building a level 1 but planning a level 10 character. I'm going for the bookish type, trying to discover secrets mankind wasn't meant to know. I worship Baccob, and took Magic and Trickery domains. I rolled stats (very well), and allocated as follows

Str 10
Dex 16
Con 17
Int 12
Wis 18
Cha 9

Should I futz with the numbers here (ie, am I right to believe that Wis > Con > Dex > Int > Str > Cha, for a Cloistered Cleric)? Also, I can use the aging rules to pull a 20 Wis to start, but I end up with a total bonus of +9 rather than +10; is this worth it? It may look something like this:

Str 6
Dex 9
Con 14
Int 18
Wis 20
Cha 12

That fits the character concept better, but it might hinder me later on; thoughs?

Now on to Feats. The DM wants a mostly core game, but says he will approve feats (so these will be reviewed by him). I have four concepts of feats I want to take in my first 10 or so levels. These are rough, and in no particular order.

All four models share Craft Wonderous Item and Craft Contingent Spell; I feel these are going to be handy, especially in a game world without an abundance of high level magic items (or high level humanoids to make them). If you disagree, let me know.

Feats Plan A (chain touch buffs and ray debuffs):
divine ward CL 5th *PH2
chain spell 1 metamagic *CArc +3
divine metamagic - *CDiv
residual magic spellcraft 12 *CMage
knowledge devotion Know(any) 5 *CC

Feats Plan B (quicken! a lot of quicken...):
quicken spell - PHB +4
divine metamagic - *CDiv
residual magic spellcraft 12 *CMage
extra turning - PHB
??? - Free

Feats Plan C (DMM Persist cheese, but I'll have at MOST 14 turn attempts):
extend spell - PHB +1
persistant spell extend spell *CAr +6
divine metamagic - *CDiv
residual magic spellcraft 12 *CMage
invisible spell 1 metamagic *City +0!

Feats Plan D (turning just gives +4 to all saves, with other fun feats):
Divine Fortune CL 5th *PH2
leadership Lvl 6 PHB
knowledge devotion Know(any) 5 *CC
invisible spell 1 metamagic *City +0!
Trickery Devotion - *CC

Any preferences or advice on these, or suggestions for alternate feats I haven't considered?

Thanks everybody!

[kyrand]

Being away from my books, I can't give any advice on your choice of feats right now. But one thing I learned from my own Cloistered Cleric - buy a monk's belt as soon as you can afford it. Since Wisdom is already a high-importance ability, you don't deal with the MAD that the monk normally deals with when trying to max AC. And it's a nice way to make up for your lack of heavier armor proficiencies.

Plus, the mental image of an older booky priest travelling with a group of younger adventurers is pretty awesome. Kudos for giving me inspiration for another PC!

[StreamOfTheSky]

I played a bookish Cleric who was also battle-oriented and so I didn't go cloistered cleric, but the concept works about the same anyway.

Play a Dwarf. Take the Ancestral Knowledge feat from Races of Stone. You no longer need a high int except for skill points (so get a decent score, but not punishingly expensive like your current 18) because you use wisdom for your knowledge checks. The feat has a cool flavor to it, too. Oh, it also lets you make knowledge checks untrained. The other players had a running joke where they'd say "Kraagor (my Cleric) has Knowledge ([insert gag classification, such as "kama sutra" or "your mama"]) +18!"

My other pointers for "optimizing" a nerd cleric:
Absent Minded trait.
Collector of Stories skill trick (Complete Scoundrel): Skill tricks cost 2 skill points and basically give you a once/encounter special skill usage. For Collector of Stories, you get a +5 bonus on a knowledge check to identify a creature as long as you're trained in the appropriate knowledge.
Lore of the Gods (Complete Champion): An amazing level 2 spell that lasts 10 min/level, this gives you a +10 (!!!!) bonus on knowledge checks for the duration. It's usually +5, but is increased to +10 if the Knowledge domain is offered by your deity, lucky you.

EDIT: And I see you know of Knowledge Devotion. With all those bonuses, you can regularly get +4 or +5 atack/damage on all enemies. I just didn't know if you wanted to also fight well. In my cleric's case, he was all about studying demons and taking the fight to them, so it fit for him to take it.

[ScottB]

Thanks for the suggestion of a Dwarf and Knowledge devotion! I had considered this route. However, the loss of the human feat seems a pretty steep price to me.

Maybe I can work this into Feat Plan A and chain spell. The purpose of Knowledge devotion there was to make my chained ranged touch spells hit more often, and improve the damage on each enemy targeted in the chain with a damaging spell. The damage boost to so many enemies should be nice: something akin to an archer with multi-shot and sneak.

Does anyone else have any comments or thoughts on my stat loadout or feat selection?

Thanks!

Edit: Also, good suggestions for further optimizing knowledge checks. I'll have to pass Collector of Stories and Lore of the Gods by my DM. Very flavorful; thank you!

[Herobizkit]

Are you against multi-classing? I would think 3 levels of Warlock (for a 2d6 Eldritch Blast) thrown in with some relevant Invocations (just as good as persistent spells or feats, IMO) would supplement your ranged attack build very nicely. They have most Knowledge skills as class skills, PLUS access to Use Magic Device (which is NEVER bad).

A Dwarven Knowledge devotee is a great character concept. My DM has a NPC Dwarven Diviner with the same schtick and it's a refreshing change from the traditional Dwarf stigmas (?). Of course, this means I've agreed with SotS twice in one day. Must be a leap year, or a full moon.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Originally Posted by Herobizkit

Of course, this means I've agreed with SotS twice in one day. Must be a leap year, or a full moon.

Originally Posted by Herobizkit, in another thread

As for Druid, I agree with StreamOfTheSky, which is rare, so pay attention. LOL!

Do we have some sort of rivalry I wasn't aware of?

[Dannyalcatraz]

You might want to take a look at the Paragon classes for whatever PC you design- some of those include one or more +2 Stat boosts and some spellcasting progression...or a bonus feat. A Half-Elf could take levels in Human paragon as well, and get another stat boost and spell progression. Sure, he wouldn't have the top spells, but he'd have a Wis nobody could touch and most of his spellcasting...and lots of bonuses.

In addition, its my personal opinion that Dex is actually more important to PC survivability than Con, and frequently build my PCs that way. Dex gets you bonuses to Ref saves, initiative, ranged attack accuracy and AC. Con gets you fort saves and HP.

But HP are ablative- once used, they're gone until you heal. Bonuses to AC are non-ablative.

Furthermore, you've described the PC as being a bit bookish...and you're considering the Knowledge domain. Furthermore, the class itself is lightly armored.

So I'd prioritize his stats this way: Wis > Dex > Int > Str > Cha > Con>

(Or, if you want to be better at turning, put the Cha in 3rd position and bump every other stat down.)

That way, regardless of actual class breakdown, your Wis is maxed, your AC is maxed & you get the most out of your Knowledge domain. Emphasize ranged combat in your weapon selection- both with things like spears or javelins and the brainier weapons like Alchemist's Fire or Tanglefoot bags- and stay out of combat. And if you continue your Crafting ways, certain Oils (like Darkness) may make fine grenades, and certain Wands could be best used by dexterous types.

In addition, the Feat Reach spell lets you turn touch spells into rays- perfect for the risk-averse cleric who wishes to heal his buddy, but doesn't want to risk being smacked by the Orc barbarian standing over him...

[Herobizkit]

Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky

Do we have some sort of rivalry I wasn't aware of?

Not officially. It just seems like in many threads I read, your character design concepts greatly differ from what I would normally suggest or play. Plus, you're in, like, every thread on here.

It's light-hearted ribbing at worst, and sorry if I offended.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Originally Posted by Herobizkit

Not officially. It just seems like in many threads I read, your character design concepts greatly differ from what I would normally suggest or play. Plus, you're in, like, every thread on here.

It's light-hearted ribbing at worst, and sorry if I offended.

I'm not offended, I'm amused.

It's like Xykon having an intense mortal conflict with Roy and yet never recalling his name. And yeah, I don't like 4E and not terribly excited over pathfinder, and this board's much less populated than it used to be, so I take up more real estate than I did pre-4E, I suppose. Being unemployed has also left me with a disgusting amount of free time.

[Herobizkit]

Hey, at least you can use that time to game! :P Plus, I'm glad you're amused.

I haven't had the pleasure to play 4e, and I've gleaned Pathfinder's "3.75" rules. Still playing an amalgam of 3.0 and 3.5 atm when we do find time to play, which is never.