I'm running a high level campaign now (level 17) and was hoping to put the party up against some tough melee opponents (death knight for one, frenzied berserker for another, and some tough fighters)... they'll all be human, or formerly human in the case of the death knight. They will have magical support in clerics, mages and a warlock, but their primary focus will be getting the melee wrecking crew into action. The magical support will be lower level than the PCs (level 11-13 range), but can still cause some damage.
If I'm the bad guys, I would be most worried about the party cleric, psion or sorcerer using some sort of will save spell/power to knock out one of my primary bad guys before he gets into the thick of melee. I'm not going to give them anything uber-expensive like a ring of spell turning, but some sort of one-shot item (spell, potion, ring, wondrous item, etc) that can at least get my main bad guys into the thick of melee.
The berserker does have the Mad Foam Rager feat as well.
I can also have the magical support focus on counter-spelling as well.
Thanks
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
Hero's Feast will make them immune to fear. And if BBEGs are fighting in their home-ground, you should better use Unhallow, too.
For one-shot, how about some contingent spell (Complete Arcane). Say, contingent Panacea which takes effect if the recipient is in condition which can be removed by Panacea.
Also, you can raise will saves of those warriors.
Feats such as Iron Will & Steadfast Determination will be a good start. Cloak or Vest of Resistance should be must-have. And you can put some Marshal and/or Outcast Champion instead of some of those spellcasters.
Another option is to make their initiative really truly fast. Warriors can take Improved Initiative and Danger Sense feats. Supporting Sorcerer/Wizard can cast Nerveskitter. And one of those supporters can be Dread Commando (Heroes of Battle prestige class). If you coordinate that "evil party" for that goal, they can have really high initiative modifiers.
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initiative can be deadly, especially when you have people who are flat-footed.
i believe the soulmeld 'bluesteel bracers' can be shared at higher levels - it gives an initiative bonus dependant upon the essentia invested into it. considering that incarnum is based on character level, rather than class level, it might be worthwhile to have one of the baddies dip into incarnate, and then toss up an aura that gives all allies a +4 insight bonus to init.
in the same vein, make a pouncing totemist who has levels in scout, so he'll get multiple attacks with his beastie arms and each one will deal skirmish damage.
initiative can be deadly, especially when you have people who are flat-footed.
i believe the soulmeld 'bluesteel bracers' can be shared at higher levels - it gives an initiative bonus dependant upon the essentia invested into it. considering that incarnum is based on character level, rather than class level, it might be worthwhile to have one of the baddies dip into incarnate, and then toss up an aura that gives all allies a +4 insight bonus to init.
in the same vein, make a pouncing totemist who has levels in scout, so he'll get multiple attacks with his beastie arms and each one will deal skirmish damage.
Well, if I was a really abusive DM, I could make give the Frenzied Berserker levels as a Lion Totem barbarian, give him the Leap Attack feat and also a Valorous Weapon (doubles power attack damage on a charge, I think?) and he'd be starting at a base of +140 damage on his first attack (+40 for Supreme Power Attack, doubled to +80 for Leap Attack and then tripled to +120 for the Valorous Weapon, then the normal bonuses for 2 handed strength while raging & frenzying, plus magic, etc) And, since he is Pouncing, he can do a full attack on a charge and would be able to do that 4 more times (one extra attack with Frenzy), meaning a base of 10d6+700...in Round 1.
and, most of my bad guys do take Improved Initiative, so often go early in combat... but, I can't always win initiative.
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
Last edited by NewJeffCT; 7th September 2009 at 03:57 AM..
Reason: mistake
Hero's Feast will make them immune to fear. And if BBEGs are fighting in their home-ground, you should better use Unhallow, too.
For one-shot, how about some contingent spell (Complete Arcane). Say, contingent Panacea which takes effect if the recipient is in condition which can be removed by Panacea.
Also, you can raise will saves of those warriors.
Feats such as Iron Will & Steadfast Determination will be a good start. Cloak or Vest of Resistance should be must-have. And you can put some Marshal and/or Outcast Champion instead of some of those spellcasters.
Another option is to make their initiative really truly fast. Warriors can take Improved Initiative and Danger Sense feats. Supporting Sorcerer/Wizard can cast Nerveskitter. And one of those supporters can be Dread Commando (Heroes of Battle prestige class). If you coordinate that "evil party" for that goal, they can have really high initiative modifiers.
Thanks, good ideas. Not sure if the PCs will bring the battle to the bad guys, or if the fight will come to the PCs... depends on a few choices the players make. But, if it's just a straight up roll for Initiative, my bad guys will most likely go before most of the party.
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
Well, if I was a really abusive DM, I could make give the Frenzied Berserker levels as a Lion Totem barbarian, give him the Leap Attack feat and also a Valorous Weapon (doubles power attack damage on a charge, I think?) and he'd be starting at a base of +140 damage on his first attack (+40 for Supreme Power Attack, doubled to +80 for Leap Attack and then tripled to +120 for the Valorous Weapon, then the normal bonuses for 2 handed strength while raging & frenzying, plus magic, etc) And, since he is Pouncing, he can do a full attack on a charge and would be able to do that 4 more times (one extra attack with Frenzy), meaning a base of 10d6+700...in Round 1.
and, most of my bad guys do take Improved Initiative, so often go early in combat... but, I can't always win initiative.
considering the inherent awesomeness (some would say cheese) of the lion totem and the frenzied berserker, i doubt that your players would be very happy with that, but i totally see what you mean.
i believe, i'm not sure, but that there was a spell in the PHB2 called 'regroup' that a person could cast to immediately summon their allies around them? maybe an invisible mook could somehow get into the middle of the heroes and then use this, springing his horrible friends directly into their midst?
considering the inherent awesomeness (some would say cheese) of the lion totem and the frenzied berserker, i doubt that your players would be very happy with that, but i totally see what you mean.
i believe, i'm not sure, but that there was a spell in the PHB2 called 'regroup' that a person could cast to immediately summon their allies around them? maybe an invisible mook could somehow get into the middle of the heroes and then use this, springing his horrible friends directly into their midst?
Nah, I wouldn't spring the berserker/lion totem barbarian with a valorous weapon at them... if it/he made it into melee, it's a potential TPK.
Regroup sounds promising.
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
it's a 3rd level wizard/sorcerer, but also 3rd level duskblade, and it's 1 ally per level, but the range is short. maybe a duskblade mook could invisibly get near the group and the use sudden empower to alter the range by 50% (kinda iffy on that, but you could just hand-waive it if you wanted added dramatic effect)?
i've used it IMC and it's pretty awesome, especially when a 'lone' evil mage raises his hands and all of his bruisers surround him - although, the downside is that the group's sorcerer begins to froth at the mouth over the prospects of having so many enemies concentrated in such a neat little group hah
Instead of using magic items you could have a 13th level abjuration master specialist for magical support. The master specialist prestige class is from the complete mage and would allow the mage to cast personal abjuration spells as range touch. Using this ability the mage would cast antimagic field on the frenzied berserker. This should dramatically increase the survivability of the berserker and neutralize magical protections and attacks. For the rest of the battle the mage hangs out invisible and counterspelling spells. The 10 levels of abjuration master specialist gives +5 dispel checks to keep the caster competitive with the higher-level PCs. Additionally, the mage could take elven spell lore for a +2 dispel checks and dampen spell to reduce the save DC of any spell the mage fails to dispel. Both of those feats are from the player handbook II.
Instead of using magic items you could have a 13th level abjuration master specialist for magical support. The master specialist prestige class is from the complete mage and would allow the mage to cast personal abjuration spells as range touch. Using this ability the mage would cast antimagic field on the frenzied berserker. This should dramatically increase the survivability of the berserker and neutralize magical protections and attacks. For the rest of the battle the mage hangs out invisible and counterspelling spells. The 10 levels of abjuration master specialist gives +5 dispel checks to keep the caster competitive with the higher-level PCs. Additionally, the mage could take elven spell lore for a +2 dispel checks and dampen spell to reduce the save DC of any spell the mage fails to dispel. Both of those feats are from the player handbook II.
Excellent (rubs hands together like Mr. Burns from The Simpsons)
XP awarded!! (grr - can't believe I spelled "awarded" wrong the first time...)
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
Last edited by NewJeffCT; 11th September 2009 at 02:43 AM..
Reason: stupid typo
Instead of using magic items you could have a 13th level abjuration master specialist for magical support. The master specialist prestige class is from the complete mage and would allow the mage to cast personal abjuration spells as range touch. Using this ability the mage would cast antimagic field on the frenzied berserker. This should dramatically increase the survivability of the berserker and neutralize magical protections and attacks. For the rest of the battle the mage hangs out invisible and counterspelling spells. The 10 levels of abjuration master specialist gives +5 dispel checks to keep the caster competitive with the higher-level PCs. Additionally, the mage could take elven spell lore for a +2 dispel checks and dampen spell to reduce the save DC of any spell the mage fails to dispel. Both of those feats are from the player handbook II.
I'm running a high level campaign now (level 17) and was hoping to put the party up against some tough melee opponents (death knight for one, frenzied berserker for another, and some tough fighters)... they'll all be human, or formerly human in the case of the death knight. They will have magical support in clerics, mages and a warlock, but their primary focus will be getting the melee wrecking crew into action. The magical support will be lower level than the PCs (level 11-13 range), but can still cause some damage.
If I'm the bad guys, I would be most worried about the party cleric, psion or sorcerer using some sort of will save spell/power to knock out one of my primary bad guys before he gets into the thick of melee. I'm not going to give them anything uber-expensive like a ring of spell turning, but some sort of one-shot item (spell, potion, ring, wondrous item, etc) that can at least get my main bad guys into the thick of melee.
The berserker does have the Mad Foam Rager feat as well.
I can also have the magical support focus on counter-spelling as well.
Thanks
Maybe look up Fortunate Fate from the Spell Compendium. It's essentially a Contingent Heal.
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