Races with a Charisma bonus?

NewJeffCT · 16th October 2009, 03:46 PM

I was hoping to create a powerful sorcerer opponent for the PCs coming up (level 18-20 range)...

And, yes, the sorcerer would have allies, so would not be alone. But, I wanted to describe this guy as one of the great wielders of sorcery in the world and was thinking that a race that had a +2 or +4 to Charisma would be a logical place to start. Are there any out there? Especially looking for ones that are LA+0 or +1.

Or, if there are not many good choices there, what about cheap templates that would give you a CHA bonus?

Thanks

Elethiomel · 16th October 2009, 04:08 PM

The Chaos Gnome from Races of Stone has a +2 Cha bonus and a +1 LA. It even has Sorcerer as favoured class, and +1 caster level on spells with the [chaos] descriptor. Otherwise on the +1 LA / +2 CHA we have Catfolk who make excellent touch-attack blasters due to their +4 DEX, Aasimar who would make an excellent "breaking the stereotype" villain, and a few from Dragon magazines.

There's death-touched from Dragon magazine 313 who have a +4 CHA for +1 LA, which is pretty silly.

As for templates, there's always Draconic (which is one of the strongest +1 LA templates out there, as it gives +2 to all of strength, constitution and charisma, +1 natural armor, darkvision, low-light vision, some bonuses to skills and saves, and no negatives).

Theroc · 16th October 2009, 04:13 PM

Catfolk from 'RotW' (I assume Races of the Wild) have +4 dex, +2 cha according to crystalkeep. They also have +1 natural armor, bonus to listen and move silently, Lowlight vision and a 40' movement speed. +1 LA.

They also have no penalties.

Also, I don't know if your game is "WotC only" or not, but there was a Flamekin race made which can be downloaded in Enworld's download area. It has some vague parts, but it gives +2 cha, -2 int. This would likely require you to change some bits of the race to fit your campaign and balance it. I'm playtesting it in a PbP game on Enworld, but haven't had any details to see how effective or ineffective it is.

Those are the only two I can think of, besides the Drow, who are +2 LA, not within your parameters, or Pixie's, who are like +4 LA, again not within your parameters.

Shin Okada · 16th October 2009, 04:22 PM

There are several races with +1 LA and +2 Cha, such as Aasimar or Catfolk (Races of Wild). They are +1 LA but basically +0 CR as a critter I guess.

Also, if you don't hesitate to make him a true monster, you can always pick up a monster with a lot of racial HDs and better CHA who DOES NOT cast spells as a sorcerer. Then, sorcerer class level is non-associated for him.

But be careful. That non-associated rule is often broken. You should be careful estimating the final CR of the resulted critter.

Ahnehnois · 16th October 2009, 04:50 PM

Spellscales (Races of the Dragon) are tailor-made sorcerers with +2 Cha, -2 Con, and +0 LA. I believe one type of Hellbred (Fiendish Codex II) is also +2 Cha, +2 Con, although those tend to be good they have interesting flavor and certainly can be an opponent.

There are a number of fey races. Jaebrin (MMV) are +2 Cha and +1 LA with some other enchantment-related abilities. Feytouched (Fiend Folio) are also +2 Cha, +1 LA, and are immune to mind-affecting. Uldras (Frostburn) have +2 Cha and +1 LA.

There might still be some I missed, but +0 LA and mental stat bonuses is exceedingly rare.

Animal · 16th October 2009, 04:53 PM

Jaebrin (MM V) get -2 STR, +2 CHA and a few other interesting abilities overall good for a sorcerer (favoured class is beguiler though). at the price of +1 LA.

NewJeffCT · 16th October 2009, 05:00 PM

thanks - Aasimar & Cat Folk are interesting ideas. And, I have heroforge to help me with estimating CR, but I will likely stick with something vaguely human/humanoid.

Avarice · 17th October 2009, 02:21 AM

I'm not sure if Forgotten Realms material is in play, but if so, there's always the Star Elf from Unapproachable East. -2 con, +2 cha, +0 LA.

Runestar · 17th October 2009, 02:47 AM

Alternatively, you could consider a monster with innate sorc spellcasting, then build off on that. I think MM2 has the spellweaver (and racial HD improves its spellcasting as well).

Raksasha casts as a sorc, automatically qualifies for the eldritch knight prc and has impressive defenses (though this comes as a hefty boost to cr).

Kobolds have that ritual that adds +1 sorc spellcasting. That and warrior is -3cr for it, so you can go kobold warrior4/sorc17 (say), and be the equivalent of a sorc18 with caster lv22 or 21, (depending on how you decide to stack practiced spellcaster) at cr18. Or kobold warrior4/sorc19 (cr20). Spellcaster lv20, caster lv 23 or 24.

You even get 1 epic feat (epic spellcasting!!!), though improved spell capacity is a good choice as well.

Dannyalcatraz · 17th October 2009, 02:49 AM

~~The Anthro Animals from Savage Species have some interesting stat mods- I bet at least one has a bonus to cha...and if its a small race, probably no more than +1-+2 LA.~~

Edited for misinformation

Shin Okada · 17th October 2009, 04:49 AM

Ak'Chazar Rakshasa in MM 3 is another good villain sorcerer monster. As it is a CR 15 creature who casts as a 12th-level sorcerer, it's spell casting ability will be a little bit behind CR. But regarding caster level, Practiced Spellcaster feat or Abjurant Champion level will take care of. And it is much tougher than usual spell casters.

So, for example, an Ak'Chazar Rakshasa Sorcerer 5 is a CR 20 critter who casts spells as a 17th-level sorcerer, with caster level 21 (Practiced Spellcaster) with really high Charisma. Or, you can make him an Ak'Chazar Rakshasa Abjurant Champion 5 and now he casts spells as a 17th-level sorcerer with caster level 22 (=BAB).

If you only give him Abjurant Champion levels, consider giving Rapid Metamagic feat (Complete Mage). If you give some actual Sorcerer levels, give him Metamagic Specialist alternative class feature (PHB 2).

And this critter has very good necromancy spell-like abilities and special abilities, including Rebuke Undead.

I once used this critter in a campaign which is using Complete Divine variant Turning Undead rule.

Of course, Ak'Chazar had a lot of Undead minions. And as I gave him Quicken Turning feat, he could heal all the nearby undead minions' HPs in a rate of 20d6 per turn as a free action. On top of it he could use Pain Wave (20-ft. radius Inflict Moderate Wounds) as another free action

Dannyalcatraz · 17th October 2009, 07:47 AM

I just checked- I was dead wrong about the Anthro Animals from SS- nothing there meets your criteria, and most either have a 0 or -2 Cha adjustment.

HOWEVER...

The Mephlings from Planar Handbook have a -2Int +2Cha adjustment, are small, and have a breath weapon and nifty little elemental abilities...all for +1LA.

Dannyalcatraz · 17th October 2009, 07:57 AM

In addition, I'd be surprised if at least one of the planetouched races didn't have a positive Cha bonus, and most of those races are in the +0-+2 range.

One I'm sure has it is the Fey'ri...but, as I recall, that one is on the higher side of LA mods.

StreamOfTheSky · 17th October 2009, 08:09 AM

I've always liked the Phrenic template, at least in games with LA buyoff. As an NPC, the LA at least shouldn't add as much to the CR. I know the CR line says to add 3 for someone of your party's level, but that seems kind of insane for the CR bonus to exceed LA...

Anyway! Not only does the template give +4 charisma and some other boosts, it gives a slew of psi-like abilities to complement the arcane casting, ability to take psionic feats, and Power Resistance, which I assume would count as SR in your game (transparency).

It'd be like a psionic version of an Ultimate Magus.

EDIT: If you just want a cheap template for some cha, the Draconic template adds +2 cha among other things for only +1 LA. I foget what book it's from, but I saw it in crystalkeep's templates index.

Aus_Snow · 17th October 2009, 11:02 AM

Star Elf (Unapproachable East) and Spellscale (Races of the Dragon) are both +2 Cha, -2 Con, +0 LA races, with a few tricks each. The latter is stronger, IIRC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin Okada

But be careful. That non-associated rule is often broken. You should be careful estimating the final CR of the resulted critter.

Really? 'Adding a nonassociated class level to a monster increases its CR by 1/2 per level until one of its nonassociated class levels equals its original Hit Dice.' So, even with that taken into account?

Shin Okada · 17th October 2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aus_Snow

Really? 'Adding a nonassociated class level to a monster increases its CR by 1/2 per level until one of its nonassociated class levels equals its original Hit Dice.' So, even with that taken into account?

Yes. There are creatures with much lower CR than to it's number of HD's.

For example, Dragonkin (Draconomicon) is a CR 3 creature with 7 HDs. Now you add 7 levels of Sorcerer. It is counted as non-assosiated class and thus +3 CR (or +4 if you round it up, though it is not suggested so). So, if you just follow the guideline, that is only a CR 6 (or 7 if you round up).

Now you have a creature who has a full casting ability of a 7th-level sorcerer plus 7d8 more HDs with +7 Natural Armor, Fly speed & better ability scores. And it is a large creature.

What is worth, this critter can take Practiced Spellcaster feat to bump it's caster level to 11th.

The thing is definitely far much stronger than a usual 7th-level sorcerer.

There will be a lot more examples I guess.

Aus_Snow · 17th October 2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin Okada

Yes. There are creatures with much lower CR than to it's number of HD's.

Huh. Yep, valid. I guess that kind of thing just never came up, with me or anyone else around here as DM. Plus, for quite a while, I've been spoiled by the Immortal's Handbook, appendix v5. And hoping for v6. . .

But anyway, I'd kind of forgotten about (if they even occurred to me in the first place) many of the, uh, interesting aspects to the standard EL/CR/ECL system.

Runestar · 17th October 2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

The thing is definitely far much stronger than a usual 7th-level sorcerer.

To be fair, there are quite a few cases of monsters with spellcasting capabilities stronger than a spellcasting npc of the same cr. Though they usually compensate by having fewer HD.

For example, a ghaele casts as cleric14 but is cr13 (compare with cleric14 at cr14). The psionic mindflayer is cr8 but manifests as a telepath9. The planetar is cr16 and casts as a cleric17.

MM2 has a few more examples (most notably the bone naga and spellweaver) while fiend folio has the cranium rat, though I am willing to concede that being 3.0 material, their cr might be a tad off. The most infamous example being the elemental weird, with sorc18 spellcasting but only cr12...

The non-associated rule is quite hit and miss, but as a general rule of thumb, I find it is still fairly accurate for monsters with relatively few racial HD (8 or fewer?) and the cr should be at least 3/4 HD. Avoid it on monsters with HD equal to or more than double their cr.

For instance, using this rule, an ogre cleric5 would be cr6 (which seems about right). Though if it gets to buff extensively prior to a battle (eg: it can manage caster lv9 with practiced spellcaster, allowing it to get +3 to-hit/damage from divine favour), you may wish to increase its cr to 7.

Conversely, an elder elemental cleric24 would be cr23, but has an obscene amount of HD, making it ridiculously tough (don't even get me started on what might happen if it gets divine power off).

NewJeffCT · 18th October 2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin Okada

Ak'Chazar Rakshasa in MM 3 is another good villain sorcerer monster. As it is a CR 15 creature who casts as a 12th-level sorcerer, it's spell casting ability will be a little bit behind CR. But regarding caster level, Practiced Spellcaster feat or Abjurant Champion level will take care of. And it is much tougher than usual spell casters.

So, for example, an Ak'Chazar Rakshasa Sorcerer 5 is a CR 20 critter who casts spells as a 17th-level sorcerer, with caster level 21 (Practiced Spellcaster) with really high Charisma. Or, you can make him an Ak'Chazar Rakshasa Abjurant Champion 5 and now he casts spells as a 17th-level sorcerer with caster level 22 (=BAB).

If you only give him Abjurant Champion levels, consider giving Rapid Metamagic feat (Complete Mage). If you give some actual Sorcerer levels, give him Metamagic Specialist alternative class feature (PHB 2).

And this critter has very good necromancy spell-like abilities and special abilities, including Rebuke Undead.

I once used this critter in a campaign which is using Complete Divine variant Turning Undead rule.

Of course, Ak'Chazar had a lot of Undead minions. And as I gave him Quicken Turning feat, he could heal all the nearby undead minions' HPs in a rate of 20d6 per turn as a free action. On top of it he could use Pain Wave (20-ft. radius Inflict Moderate Wounds) as another free action

Thanks - this looks intriguing as well. But, I was thinking of having this sorcerer as part of a group of evil casters (evil cleric, evil psion and evil sorcerer) all together. So, the Pain Wave & healing undead minions at 20d6 is pretty cool, but might not be the best choice.

Runestar · 18th October 2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Thanks - this looks intriguing as well. But, I was thinking of having this sorcerer as part of a group of evil casters (evil cleric, evil psion and evil sorcerer) all together. So, the Pain Wave & healing undead minions at 20d6 is pretty cool, but might not be the best choice.

Give them all the tomb-tainted soul feat (libris mortis) and you are set. Healing the npcs while nuking the PCs at the same time?