On page 125 of my Rules Compendium, it states that the spell Feather Fall is now an immediate action because it can be taken when it's not your turn. In the 3.5 PHB, it was a free action, and it has always been played as a free action in previous editions as well.
When you look at the definition of immediate actions on Pg 7 of the Rules Compendium, however, the last line of the Immediate Action paragraph states: You can't use an Immediate Action when you're flat-footed.
That seems to imply that if the bad guys surprise you on a mountain path and bull rush you off the ledge, you would not be able to cast Feather Fall because you're flat-footed from surprise. Heck, you're flat-footed even if they beat you in initiative and don't surprise you.
Is this a mistake in the Rules Compendium, or did they just seriously change Feather Fall as a spell? You can fall quite a distance in 6 seconds.
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
It's not a mistake. Feather fall is an immediate action now. It's more useful that way because then you don't have to wait for your turn to come up in initiative order to cast it, free action or no. As you said, you can fall really far in 6 seconds.
You may not be able to use it when flat-footed, so just make sure you don't get bull-rushed off a cliff in a surprise round; wait for normal combat to start first.
__________________ Need an informed review of a product? No problem! Check out my RPGnow Staff Reviews!
IIRC, that revision was first introduced in Psionics Handbook. And WotC defined that a character can't take an immediate action while flat-footed.
By the way, I am not sure when you fall a round-worth distance in that case.
Will you fall immediately after the opponent has bull-rushed you?
Will you fall at the start of your turn?
Or at the end of your first turn?
Or at the same initiative count as the bull-rushed opponent in the next round?
well, with a normal bull rush, you'd be deposited 5+ feet back immediately on the bull rusher's turn. However, if there was no ground there, I'd think you'd immediately start falling.
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
It's not a mistake. Feather fall is an immediate action now. It's more useful that way because then you don't have to wait for your turn to come up in initiative order to cast it, free action or no. As you said, you can fall really far in 6 seconds.
That would make a lot of sense, except that you could already cast feather fall when it wasn't your turn; the spell description explicitly said so.
I think it's pretty obviously a mistake. They didn't think about the implications of the no-immediate-actions-when-flatfooted rider, and now by RAW you can't save yourself with feather fall if you're pushed off a cliff by an opponent who surprises you, but you can if you just happen to fall off the same cliff all on your own outside of combat.
That makes no sense, so I have to conclude it was unintentional.
That would make a lot of sense, except that you could already cast feather fall when it wasn't your turn; the spell description explicitly said so.
I think it's pretty obviously a mistake. They didn't think about the implications of the no-immediate-actions-when-flatfooted rider, and now by RAW you can't save yourself with feather fall if you're pushed off a cliff by an opponent who surprises you, but you can if you just happen to fall off the same cliff all on your own outside of combat.
That makes no sense, so I have to conclude it was unintentional.
Just have great Initiative: if you roll Initiative as soon as you fall it is your turn and you can cast it now (you can cast immediate actions on your turn as a swift action).
What wizards doesn't have good Init?
__________________ "If you can't believe in yourself, believe in me who believes in you."
and
"Go beyond the impossible, and kick reason to the curb" Kamina, from Gurren Lagann
That would make a lot of sense, except that you could already cast feather fall when it wasn't your turn; the spell description explicitly said so.
I think it's pretty obviously a mistake. They didn't think about the implications of the no-immediate-actions-when-flatfooted rider, and now by RAW you can't save yourself with feather fall if you're pushed off a cliff by an opponent who surprises you, but you can if you just happen to fall off the same cliff all on your own outside of combat.
That makes no sense, so I have to conclude it was unintentional.
Hm, good point.
Maybe you could just say that once you start falling, you're no longer flat-footed. After all, there's nothing under your feet anymore!
__________________ Need an informed review of a product? No problem! Check out my RPGnow Staff Reviews!
Maybe you could just say that once you start falling, you're no longer flat-footed. After all, there's nothing under your feet anymore!
This is how I rule it because all distance you travel occurs on your turn in the intiative order (bull rush not withstanding - since actually both parties are moving). Despite common sense you don't continuously fall throughout the round, all movement you make (or distance your traverse) is calculated on your turn in the initiative order.
So I rule that if you fall in a trap on a surprise round (since initiaitve should start immediately then) you don't "start" to fall until your turn in the intiative order to be consistent with the way all movement is handled.
I think it's pretty obviously a mistake. They didn't think about the implications of the no-immediate-actions-when-flatfooted rider
Most free-action spells were errata-d to become immediate actions as soon as immediate actions were introduced, AFAIK. I don't see any worthwhile reason you should be able to cast feather fall when surprised, just because you might possibly be falling off a cliff at the time.
I think it's pretty obviously a mistake. They didn't think about the implications of the no-immediate-actions-when-flatfooted rider, and now by RAW you can't save yourself with feather fall if you're pushed off a cliff by an opponent who surprises you, but you can if you just happen to fall off the same cliff all on your own outside of combat.
Thinking about Nerveskitter spell in Spell Compendium, which is an immediate action spell meant to cast when a caster rolls his initiative, I guess at least some of the designers in WotC did not have the implication of the no-immediate-actions-when-flatfooted in mind.
When rolling one's initiative, he is flat-footed....
__________________ Shin Okada (AKA Japanese Protocol Droid) My Webpage
I don't see any worthwhile reason you should be able to cast feather fall when surprised, just because you might possibly be falling off a cliff at the time.
The entire point of the spell is to save you from unexpected falls. Why should it matter whether the unexpectedness results from an inattentive misstep (spell saves you) or an unnoticed enemy pushing you (spell can't save you)? In both cases, I would think, you're going to be "surprised."
Because when flat-footed you are caught completely off guard. Think "deer in the headlights". Your presence of mind has deserted you, you cannot react appropriately in any sort of immediate fashion.
Thinking about Nerveskitter spell in Spell Compendium, which is an immediate action spell meant to cast when a caster rolls his initiative, I guess at least some of the designers in WotC did not have the implication of the no-immediate-actions-when-flatfooted in mind.
When rolling one's initiative, he is flat-footed....
Check the errata for spell compendium. It mentions that you can cast nerveskitter while flat-footed.
That would make a lot of sense, except that you could already cast feather fall when it wasn't your turn; the spell description explicitly said so.
I think it's pretty obviously a mistake. They didn't think about the implications of the no-immediate-actions-when-flatfooted rider, and now by RAW you can't save yourself with feather fall if you're pushed off a cliff by an opponent who surprises you, but you can if you just happen to fall off the same cliff all on your own outside of combat.
That makes no sense, so I have to conclude it was unintentional.
I'd have to agree with V here.
I'd also add that you could state the specific text of being able to cast the spell still over-rides the general rule of no immediate actions while flat-footed.
__________________ Dross
----------
Scrag: I saved his life.
Leanna: How so?
Scrag: I stopped hitting him.
Scrag, ½-orc barbarian from Great Worm Tribe, the High Forrest
I'd also add that you could state the specific text of being able to cast the spell still over-rides the general rule of no immediate actions while flat-footed.
i'd say that is a reasonable way of running it.
Quote:
You can cast this spell with an instant utterance, quickly enough to save yourself if you unexpectedly fall.
I'd also add that you could state the specific text of being able to cast the spell still over-rides the general rule of no immediate actions while flat-footed.
However, the Rules Compendium specifically cites Feather Fall as an example of moving from a Free Action to an Immediate Action.
__________________ "Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
This is how I rule it because all distance you travel occurs on your turn in the intiative order (bull rush not withstanding - since actually both parties are moving). Despite common sense you don't continuously fall throughout the round, all movement you make (or distance your traverse) is calculated on your turn in the initiative order.
So I rule that if you fall in a trap on a surprise round (since initiaitve should start immediately then) you don't "start" to fall until your turn in the intiative order to be consistent with the way all movement is handled.
This. The turn-based combat in DnD is explicitly states it's intending to simulate simultaneous actions by all participants of the combat. You don't actually stand still outside your turn - it's an abstraciton to make combat move at a reasonable pace.
Also,
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewJeffCT
However, the Rules Compendium specifically cites Feather Fall as an example of moving from a Free Action to an Immediate Action.
I would rule that this text means that when you cast Feather Fall you lose your next swift action, which was the major feature of Immediate Actions in the first place.
I would still allow Feather Fall when flat-footed even if the abstraction of not falling until it's your turn in the initiative order is too much for a group, but I hold to Irdeggman's interpretation of movement and falling rules so if you're falling outside your initiative count I consider us to already be in house rule territory.
However, the Rules Compendium specifically cites Feather Fall as an example of moving from a Free Action to an Immediate Action.
So?
This reminds me of an endless debate about whether you're flat-footed all the time outside of combat. Poor RAW players obviously are. Everyone else just shrugs and follows common sense.
Because when flat-footed you are caught completely off guard.
I'm still not getting why you're any more "completely off guard" when an enemy pushes you off a cliff than you are when, say, you step onto an illusionary floor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheshire_grin
Think "deer in the headlights". Your presence of mind has deserted you, you cannot react appropriately in any sort of immediate fashion.
Yeah, I understand the concept of "flat-footed." That's not the point at all.
First, a character is not flat-footed outside of combat. Flat-footed is defined in terms of being in combat, i.e., in initiative. No combat, no initiative, no flat-footed. It's irrelevant that feather fall is an immediate action, outside of combat, just as it's irrelevant that stone shape is a standard action, outside of combat. Outside of combat, feather fall is just a spell you cast to slow a fall.
Second, if you are in combat and flat-footed, I don't understand why it's so unthinkable that someone deliberately trying to make a wizard's teammate fall might actually succeed in doing so. Why is it so difficult to believe that a wizard could be caught gawking by the sudden eruption of combat?
Feather fall works perfectly well as an immediate action spell. (Nerveskitter didn't, but as someone pointed out, nerveskitter was errataed. Badly -- it should have simply said, "when rolling for initiative" -- but well enough to serve.)
__________________ Jeff Wilder, San Francisco Bay Area If your sig is longer than your posts, your sig is too
long. Nobody reads it, they just get annoyed by it. And if you bore me, you lose your soul to me. - Belly
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
