Indirect Bow fire?
 

I am sure I am just missing this, but I can not seem to find anything on indirect (arced) fire for bows etc when they are outside.

I remember in previous editions that feet of range became yards but I have found nothing similar in 3e.

Thanks in Advance,
-MacMathan

The closest thing I know of is on p.66 of the DMG: Firing into a Crowd, indirect fire deviation.

Thanks,

I looked at that one but I didn't see anywhere that listed different range maximums.

-MacMathan

Easy. If you don't see where to hit, I'd say use grenade weapon rules for deviation (which gives a random distribution in a certain area), then, in case you hit a square with a target creature, you still have a 50% miss chance for shooting at something you don't see.

I don't understand why you'd be able to shoot further when you can't see what you're shooting at.

It's not because you can't see what your hitting. In AD&D (and probably 3rd Ed) the ranges for bows assume dungeon adventuring, ie: A low ceiling and a pretty flat tragectory for the arrow. Maximum range for a bow (assuming no wind) is achieved outdoors firing upward at around a 45 degree angle, and is significantly greater than what can be achieved in a dungeon environment. Old version of D&D use to say if you were adventuring outdoors could feet as yards for weapon ranges.

By indirect I think he means just shooting with high arch, not necessarily firing at a unseen target. Which is what indirect fire tends to mean to most people.

Picture 200 archers firing across a battle field into a crowd of 400 warriors. The warriors are too far away to aim at them and fire straight across the field, so all the archers aim up, and just let loose a hail of arrows that fall randomly about the area.

He wants to know how to adjucate the increased range from arcing the shots like this.

I'd say that being able to shoot up to 10 range increments away already accounts for this. The increased range is restricted by the penalty to hit.

You could do something like the d20 modern autofire rules. Target a square with your arrow. Squares have AC 5, but the range is going to jack that way up. Allowing indirect fire in the 11-20 range increments, the range penalty will be from -20 to -38.

If you hit, you hit that square. If you miss, roll a grenade scatter to see what square you did hit. Whatever square you hit, the guy in that square gets a reflex save DC 15 to avoid damage (stepping out of the way or raising his shield), otherwise he takes damage. No crits are possible, obviously.

I agree.

Why? You can get crits when you swing at an invisible opponent, why not when you shoot an arrow into a crowd?

Because by the rule I posted, you're attacking a square, not a character, and it becomes sort of an area-effect kind of attack, with a reflex save.

No, no reflex save.

Arrows don't get a reflex save.

If you're shooting at a body of troops, the way I would do it, is that you use the size of the whole body rather than the size of the individual members for the to-hit roll, and then apply a 50% miss chance.

Bullets don't get a reflex save either, except when you use them for autofire, which is an indirect, area-effect type of attack, and where I yoinked the rule from. If you don't like it, don't use it, it's not like I'm the rule police.

Thanks for the ideas.

Yes I did mean arced arrow fire at targets you can see. It sounds like the direct fire ranges maybe too long to reflect inside or level firing.

I realize that this is always dangerous with DnD:) but does anyone have an idea of how far the historical counter parts to these bows could fire flat and arced at 45degrees?

Thanks,
-MacMathan

I'd say a flat arc would be limited to two range increments.

Underground, that's farther than most people can SEE, much less find a corridor that long and straight to shoot down....

The way I have always played is that any fire beyond short range (base range increment in 3E) is arced. In 3E I use a 10 foot per range increment rule or 1/2 the range increment, which ever is less.

That is a rather clever solution. A military formation is usually going to be Gargantuan or Colossal.

Strong bows seem to have an arrow velocity of 200 to 300 fps. Call an average 80 m/s, because I like the math in metric more.

Disclaimer: All following calculations disregard wind, drag, etc.

Firing from shoulder height (5 feet, about 1.5 meters), flat, the arrow would travel 44ish meters before it hit the ground, in about a half-second. That's what, 1 range increment easy, with hardly any loft at all.

The range on a bow with this initial speed at 45 degrees loft is about 650 meters. That's rather unrealistic, because real arrows have all kinds of drag, and are affected very much by the wind, but firing in a vacuum, that's what you'd get.

Edit: had the range increment on a longbow wrong.

So a longbow, with a 100 foot range increment, maximum 10 range increments, initial velocity 250 fps, would need about a 15 degree loft to go 1000 feet; it would take about 4 seconds to cover the distance, and reach a maximum height of about 70 feet in the air (65 feet above firing height). So apparently there's already some indirect fire built into the system.