Dark Sun Anyone?

Outlaw68 · 6th July 2009, 02:48 PM

Hi all,

I am fairly new to posting on these forums (but a regular poster on the WOTC forums). I have recently finished creating a first draft of a dark sun 4th ed game and I am hoping I can get some people to look over it and give me some feedback. I have pretty much finished a players guide/DM guide, and I have also some house rules I feel work well with DS. The conversion is a combination of work by mainly myself, but i have included ideas and conversions form posters from here, wotc boards and athas.org's boards.
I am bout half way through my Monster book.. so it will be along soon.
If youa re interested in seeing what I have, please email me at mattjames68 at hotmail dot com and I will gladly email a copy of what I have come up with.

raptor112 · 7th July 2009, 04:41 PM

sounds cool, why don't you through it up on PDF format here on the boards? I'm sure plenty of people will take a look and give you feedback. I would but it takes me forever to read D&D supliments of any sort

Cwheeler · 7th July 2009, 11:32 PM

Very interesting - I'd love to see how you've implemented defiler's and preservers (as I've been jotting down some notes on this lately)

Outlaw68 · 8th July 2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cwheeler

Very interesting - I'd love to see how you've implemented defiler's and preservers (as I've been jotting down some notes on this lately)

Have been emailed to you!.. Defilers was a tricky one to handle, i went with it being somewhere like being from the Dark Side in d20 star wars and a 4th disease progression.. Preserving i basically looked at more as an attitude than something that needed mechanics. I did create a few powers and feats specifically for Defilers and Preserver though.. just to add a little flavour.

Outlaw68 · 8th July 2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raptor112

sounds cool, why don't you through it up on PDF format here on the boards? I'm sure plenty of people will take a look and give you feedback. I would but it takes me forever to read D&D supliments of any sort

I will do that!.. once i figure out how?

Outlaw68 · 8th July 2009, 01:41 AM

ok then.. here is were i am at. I have attached the PDF's.. i hope that worked lol.. i think i have it worked out.

Most of the work is my own, but i have used work form posters on here, athas.org and the WOTC boards (I have a list of credits at the front of the the Dark Sun Players Guide). the DMG is filled out a little with stuff from the dark sun wiki for now too, but i will be re-writing all of that.

I also have a few house rules (mainly critical hits and a couple of other small systems) designed to make 4th ed a little grittier and i guess in some ways a little more realistic (primarily for combat - my players has a hard time wrapping their heads around hit points as an abstract and how you can fight and not get injured - these charts create injuries and effects)

Any words of advice and constructive criticism is more than welcome!

YESSSSSSSSS! it worked

PLEASE CHECK THE LATEST VERSIONS OF THE BOOKS - POSTED 10th JULY

BobTheNob · 8th July 2009, 05:17 AM

Critical Hit Charts...
We used to play Rolemaster. Now, if you have ever played that dinosaur you will appreciate books after books of nothing but tables and charts, and then the process of "Roll a to-hit"...1/2 hour later that to-hit is resolved, cause it took so long to look things up and try to determine the result.

Then there was the whole "Hang on, can bleeding criticals apply to a treant" and the endless arguments contained therein.

Then, when we tried to add interest value via controllable attack forms (which D&D4th has now done with powers) there was the whole contraversy of how to criticals combine with them ("I cut his arm? How does that work, this attacks was a targeted leg strike!")

We ended up absolutely baffling ourselves and taking the whole ruleset on the fire! It drove us mad. This is why I am happy with D&D4th, it abstracts the minutae whilst putting "injury forms" (i.e. control effects) under a reward based quantifiable framework.

Then I had a quick look at your critical system, it was like going back in time to when RPG's were complicated and frustrating. If it works for you, more power to you. But if you are after feedback, take it from a guy who has been there and done that : dont over-complicate that which has strength in simplicity. Less is more...

Outlaw68 · 8th July 2009, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheNob

Critical Hit Charts...
We used to play Rolemaster. Now, if you have ever played that dinosaur you will appreciate books after books of nothing but tables and charts, and then the process of "Roll a to-hit"...1/2 hour later that to-hit is resolved, cause it took so long to look things up and try to determine the result.

Then there was the whole "Hang on, can bleeding criticals apply to a treant" and the endless arguments contained therein.

Then, when we tried to add interest value via controllable attack forms (which D&D4th has now done with powers) there was the whole contraversy of how to criticals combine with them ("I cut his arm? How does that work, this attacks was a targeted leg strike!")

We ended up absolutely baffling ourselves and taking the whole ruleset on the fire! It drove us mad. This is why I am happy with D&D4th, it abstracts the minutae whilst putting "injury forms" (i.e. control effects) under a reward based quantifiable framework.

Then I had a quick look at your critical system, it was like going back in time to when RPG's were complicated and frustrating. If it works for you, more power to you. But if you are after feedback, take it from a guy who has been there and done that : dont over-complicate that which has strength in simplicity. Less is more...

Well.. i am not surprised it is like taking a step back in time, it is basically the 2nd ed players options critical hit system ported to 4th ed, personally i am not a huge fan of critical hit charts (I am actually more fond of the condition charts from star wars, which i still might end up adding instead of these charts), but yea basically, my players wanted gritty and more "real" as far as combat went, and this is what i came up with in an afternoon..

Actually the more i think about it, it wouldn't be too hard to adapt the Star Wars Saga Edition condition chart to 4th ed in its place, i would just replace most of the negative modifiers with conditions. Having multiple conditions isn't as hard to manage as i first thought they will be, we basically play it that you save against the most severe condition first, and once that is done the next most severe condition is in effect (ie if you have Stunned and Dazed, a successful save will move you from Stunned to Dazed, and then another save is required next time around to lift the Daze effect)

feedback is the main reason i am throwing this stuff out there for people to look at, so please keep it coming.

Outlaw68 · 8th July 2009, 06:42 AM

Ok, so i have whipped up some major changes to critical hits, basically the chart has gone form the very old school hackmasterish 36 pages back to three.. they are also much easier to follow, while trying to keep all of the fun lol

Outlaw68 · 8th July 2009, 06:44 AM

Outlaw68 · 8th July 2009, 07:48 AM

Ok.. finally.. here is my adjusted critical hit charts.. it is much easier to manger in a game!

PLEASE CHECK THE UPDATES POSTED 10TH JULY.

Garthanos · 8th July 2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outlaw68

Ok.. finally.. here is my adjusted critical hit charts.. it is much easier to manger in a game!

Here is one recommendation.. remove "no unusual effect" from the hit severity charts If I have gotten that far through the process that is more frustrating than interesting. (that is what the original save after the roll 20 gives you so why repeat it?). Make the save easier if you want all the unusual effects to be rarer.

I am planning on using something like these wound rules...
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-...ml#post4649572
The idea is that things are grittier based on actual player desire, instead of the outcome of a die roll, it keeps things heroic.

The types of wounds needs much elaboration and since that seems your area of emphasis?

Outlaw68 · 9th July 2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garthanos

Here is one recommendation.. remove "no unusual effect" from the hit severity charts If I have gotten that far through the process that is more frustrating than interesting. (that is what the original save after the roll 20 gives you so why repeat it?). Make the save easier if you want all the unusual effects to be rarer.

I am planning on using something like these wound rules...
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-...ml#post4649572
The idea is that things are grittier based on actual player desire, instead of the outcome of a die roll, it keeps things heroic.

The types of wounds needs much elaboration and since that seems your area of emphasis?

Well, i intentionally wanted to scale back the descriptors to give the DM a little more space fro creativity, but I think including types of wounds that fall under each category might be a great idea.

As an update for anybody keeping track, here are some things i am currently working on and hopeing to put up this weekend

- Languages adjusted
- Channel Divintiy Feats Added
- Familiars and Beast Companions Added
- Character Tree Rules Added
- Changed Crit system
- Fixed cosmology to make a bit more sense, altered eladrin to fit new cosmology.
- Changing how Templars, Elemental Clerics, Defilers and Preservers work (I got some real neat ideas from Cwheeler!)
- added dwarven focus and elf run as standard abilities in place of dwarven weapons and group awareness.
- Works on the Monster conversions (and they are coming along nicely)

Cwheeler · 9th July 2009, 03:15 AM

If any of you haven't had a look through the player's guide, I strongly suggest that you do so. There's a lot of interesting and usable information in there (A full 85 pages), including:

Racial information
Class modifications
3 full psionic classes
21 paragon paths
Feats
Items
Magic items
etc...

Even if you're not into Dark Sun, there's bout to be some poachable material in there.

In short, download it read it, and post your feedback

!

Quote:

- Changing how Templars, Elemental Clerics, Defilers and Preservers work (I got some real neat ideas from Cwheeler!)

Glad you liked the concept! (and looking forwards to seeing what you do with it)

Dragonhelm · 9th July 2009, 10:03 PM

Just stumbled across this, and wow! Love it.

What struck me was that you made the goliath/half-giant connection. I took an old half-giant character of mine from 2e with the Strength of the Land psionic power from Dragon Kings, then converted him to a goliath warden. So glad to know I wasn't the only one who thought of this connection.