July Rules Update DMG: Errata needed?

[Jack99]

Have you considered adding Encounter/Limited Powers for Brutes?

[Jhaelen]

Originally Posted by Jack99

Have you considered adding Encounter/Limited Powers for Brutes?

I think that's what the +50% damage column is for (ltd high on my table). Or are you referring to something else?

[Jack99]

Originally Posted by Jhaelen

I think that's what the +50% damage column is for (ltd high on my table). Or are you referring to something else?

Interesting. It could very well be. Somehow, I thought that the 25%-50% variable was just that, a variable for powers, with recharge 4 powers being more towards the 25% and encounter powers being more towards the 50% - since there is a significant difference in how many times they can be used in a combat, especially if its a solo who has it. This made me believe that I would have to make separate calculation for brute (+ lurker) damage, ie +56 and +87% respectively.

Your way makes things a lot simpler though.

Thanks for making that table btw.

[SabreCat]

Thanks much for the table, Jhaelan! I'm going to run that off and stick it into my DMG, I think.

If you do create a table with damage expressions above 30, I'd like to see it. It seems like something of an oversight that the DMG table doesn't go that high.

EDIT: Nitpick - you didn't include your fix for level 26. Average damage goes down from 25.5 to 25 from 25th to 26th level on the standard-low progression.

[SabreCat]

I've done up Jhaelen's tables in spreadsheet format here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...thkey=COvH8tIH

The average damage for the expressions can be found in hidden columns.

Let me know if there are any data entry errors...

[Oldtimer]

Originally Posted by SabreCat

Let me know if there are any data entry errors...

I think the level 17 Minion High is missing something...

[SabreCat]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

I think the level 17 Minion High is missing something...

Hah, indeed! Fixed.

[Matrix Sorcica]

Originally Posted by Jhaelen

I'm going to create another version for my own games, though, redoing the damage expressions from the July update, since I'd like it to use the other dice, too, and taking levels above 30 into account.

Post it, please.

[Jhaelen]

Originally Posted by Matrix Sorcica

Post it, please.

Here you are:

First my apologies to you d4 fans out there: I didn't use any of the d4 dice expressions.
This is because
a) it has a very low number range, and
b) there are always other dice expressions with the same maximum damage.

I picked 12 different dice expressions, three for each other type of dice (d6, d8, d10, d12), using up to four dice.

One picture shows just the damage expressions, as before; the other includes info on:
- minimum damage (min),
- calculated average damage (calc), and
- the actual average damage of the dice expression I used (avg).

In the .zip archive is the original Excel Sheet if you'd like to tinker with it.

Enjoy!

Comments

	Thanks, you just saved me a bunch of work
	jolly good, pip-pip
	Thank you, kind sir :)
	This post is absolutely awesome. Thank you!
	I was hoping someone would do this. Thank you!
	Very generous to post this
	thanks for the work
	Better than what I had. Thanks!
	Very helpful!
	a delayed appreciation of your work
	Thank you very much!

[SabreCat]

Cool! Looks like you decided to deviate some from the official table, but since it's based on the official math, it all works out. Thanks!

EDIT: Oh, duh. You stated that you wanted to use more dice types. I overlooked that in my excitement for levels 31+ :P

[Jhaelen]

Originally Posted by SabreCat

Cool! Looks like you decided to deviate some from the official table, but since it's based on the official math, it all works out. Thanks!

EDIT: Oh, duh. You stated that you wanted to use more dice types. I overlooked that in my excitement for levels 31+ :P

Yup. Extending the table while keeping the original dice expressions would have worked, but I'd have had to go up to six dice and the gaps between average and max damage would also go up more than I like.

I prefer never rolling more than four dice. Otherwise the bell curve gets too centered on the average results for my taste. It similar to what we did in 3e: Instead of rolling 10d6 for a fireball, we'd roll 4d6+21. This doesn't really make a lot of difference in practice, since it's incredibly rare to e.g. roll a six ten times.

As I mentioned earlier, in 4e it does actually make a difference, since the maximum result is used when a crit happens. Limiting myself to a maximum of four dice limits the swinginess of high crits somewhat.

Please let me know if you discover any mistakes - it was rather late when I created the tables

[mshea]

Thank you Jhaelen!

These charts are awesome. All we need is to add DCs, defenses, and attack scores and we'd have the new best Page 42 cheat sheet ever.

I just cut and pasted (literally) into my DM Screen. My players are in for a treat!

"You just stepped into a nasty necrotic bog in the Abyss, you take 4d8+29 damage"

[TarionzCousin]

Originally Posted by mshea

My players are in for a treat!

"You just stepped into a nasty necrotic bog in the Abyss, you take 4d8+29 damage"

You have a different definition of the word "treat" than I do.

Comments

Heh

[mshea]

I just spent a good piece of this morning taking a Sharpie to my Monster Manual 1 with those new damage expressions. It was awesome watching Balors and Dracolichs turn into the powerful beasts they were always intended to be. Even encounters I didn't plan to run from adventures became useful when I jacked up the damage of the nasties.

Jhaelen, do you have a twitter account? I want to give credit where it is due.

Thanks again, this is really awesome.

Mike

[keterys]

Wow, sharpie to the monster manual.

I will say... I'm not so sure that dracoliches needed the boost