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Perhaps, though fluff that can be ignored with no effort is one of the silliest possible reasons to hate a game.
Really the biggest problem in switching back to the Great Wheel is that you'd have to convert a lot of monsters that have been left out, like guardinals and whatnot. If you let the cosmology change become a barrier between you and running a Planescape game you've kind of missed the point of RPGs.
Well I know you can make anything happen in RPGs, but I'm just stating it from a general point of view. If I could make my own version of D&D, it would combine elements from OD&D ver. 5, AD&D 2nd, 3.5, and 4e, making it like how the D&D universe is meant to be. With that, you wouldn't have to go through the hassle of making conversions. I would pretty much call it "Perfect Dungeons and Dragons".
Last edited by VGmaster9; 17th April 2011 at 07:12 AM..
The mechanics are relatively separate from the fluff. Planescape fluff already exists, so the only actual need to reproduce it is because it's hard to get old 2E books. Mind you, I know that it's very hard for many people to act on something without it being right there, so I'm not tossing aside the value of having the fluff in the current books, but it's pretty much just a psychological thing. Not being subject to that particular quirk of psychology, I could run a 4E Planescape game this very moment with no effort outside of maybe getting an energy drink because it's late. All you have to do is explain "This is the Multiverse. According to most sages, the Multiverse is composed of many parts. These include the Inner Planes, the Prime Material Planes, and the Outer Planes. The Inner Planes are connected to the Prime Material through the Ethereal Plane, while the Outer Planes connect to the Prime through the Astral Plane." and so on and so forth.
That's true, but it would just feel more comfortable to me if that was official. As for races, while the Eladrin would remain as the super powerful race like in 3.5 and not sun/moon elves with a different name, the Dragonborns would be a major race like in 4e, but would be distinct from Draconians of Krynn.
Well I know you can make anything happen in RPGs, but I'm just stating it from a general point of view. If I could make my own version of D&D, it would combine elements from OD&D ver. 5, AD&D 2nd, 3.5, and 4e, making it like how the D&D universe is meant to be. With that, you wouldn't have to go through the hassle of making conversions. I would pretty much call it "Perfect Dungeons and Dragons".
Meant to be??? lol. You understand that the 'Great Wheel' cosmology of pre-4e D&D was simply a random hodgepodge of ideas that were grafted together to suite the immediate needs of different authors and DMs over a period of decades. There was no 'meant' about it, it wasn't designed at all. EGG created a first sort of early prototype of it in The Dragon somewhere back a bit before AD&D 1e PHB was released (so maybe 1977). It was simply a sketch that went along with the new 'good/evil' alignment axis that also showed up in 1e (though again it had some precedent in magazine articles IIRC). There was no deep concept behind it.
In fact the Great Wheel suffers from a whole slew of serious problems. First of all it doesn't even faintly resemble any sort of cosmology from myth or religion. This makes it pretty awkward to integrate real world mythology into the game. Secondly it is a huge kitchen sink. Thirdly it lacks many interesting features, for instance where is the land of fairy? The land of the dead? What is the purpose of a division into inner and outer planes and why do their need to be 2 redundant 'glue' planes (ethereal and astral)?
Much of the pre-4e canon makes no real sense either. For instance if all the elementals have their own elemental plane then why would the fire and water elementals fight eachother? Do water elementals really want to live on the plane of fire??? The whole idea of what is going on in the inner planes just makes no sense at all.
The 4e cosmology OTOH makes tons of sense. There's a land of faerie, a land of the dead, no arbitrary divisions of planes or limits on how many outer planes can exist (now they are just domains, you can create whatever you want and they can be located wherever the story needs them). The elemental chaos makes more sense than the old inner planes and fits much more closely with traditional ideas of cosmogony. Honestly, you can tell any story you could tell using the Great Wheel and tell it using the World Axis and make it more sensible and easier to work out. The new cosmology is just outright better.
So, no I disagree that people hate 4e because somehow canon isn't 'what it is supposed to be'. 4e canon was created from the ground up to foster a good solid and easy to use cosmology that works well with almost any campaign and can do ALL of what the old one could, but better. What I would hate? Lack of progress.
Meant to be??? lol. You understand that the 'Great Wheel' cosmology of pre-4e D&D was simply a random hodgepodge of ideas that were grafted together to suite the immediate needs of different authors and DMs over a period of decades. There was no 'meant' about it, it wasn't designed at all. EGG created a first sort of early prototype of it in The Dragon somewhere back a bit before AD&D 1e PHB was released (so maybe 1977). It was simply a sketch that went along with the new 'good/evil' alignment axis that also showed up in 1e (though again it had some precedent in magazine articles IIRC). There was no deep concept behind it.
In fact the Great Wheel suffers from a whole slew of serious problems. First of all it doesn't even faintly resemble any sort of cosmology from myth or religion. This makes it pretty awkward to integrate real world mythology into the game. Secondly it is a huge kitchen sink. Thirdly it lacks many interesting features, for instance where is the land of fairy? The land of the dead? What is the purpose of a division into inner and outer planes and why do their need to be 2 redundant 'glue' planes (ethereal and astral)?
Much of the pre-4e canon makes no real sense either. For instance if all the elementals have their own elemental plane then why would the fire and water elementals fight eachother? Do water elementals really want to live on the plane of fire??? The whole idea of what is going on in the inner planes just makes no sense at all.
The 4e cosmology OTOH makes tons of sense. There's a land of faerie, a land of the dead, no arbitrary divisions of planes or limits on how many outer planes can exist (now they are just domains, you can create whatever you want and they can be located wherever the story needs them). The elemental chaos makes more sense than the old inner planes and fits much more closely with traditional ideas of cosmogony. Honestly, you can tell any story you could tell using the Great Wheel and tell it using the World Axis and make it more sensible and easier to work out. The new cosmology is just outright better.
So, no I disagree that people hate 4e because somehow canon isn't 'what it is supposed to be'. 4e canon was created from the ground up to foster a good solid and easy to use cosmology that works well with almost any campaign and can do ALL of what the old one could, but better. What I would hate? Lack of progress.
Both cosmologies have their ups and downs. Nice thing is you can combine them or ignore them as needed with no work other than explaining the differences to your players.
Great Wheel is fine. World Axis is fine. You can like one more than you like the other, but it's silly to try to create some sort of conflict between them.
Great Wheel is fine. World Axis is fine. You can like one more than you like the other, but it's silly to try to create some sort of conflict between them.
On the other hand, creating conflict between the World Axis cosmology and the World Allies cosmology could be the basis for a really great board game.
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