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Old 16th August 2007, 04:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
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4E: What we think we know

4th Edition is Coming
* D&D 4e has been in development since 2005.
* Specific 4e forums have been created at the Wizards site:
4th edition discussion
D&D Insider article discussion
* Also see www.dndinsider.com
* Yes, there will be a "Player's Handbook", "Dungeon Master's Guide" and "Monster Manual" in 4e.
* There will be at least 7 books of D&D 4 on 2008. (source: this post)
* Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 4e (this post by thormagni) in August 2008.
* "One new campaign setting per year"... vague plan. Dragonlance? Ravenloft? Greyhawk?(this post by thormagni)
Wizards of the Coast will release two 4th Edition preview books in December and January — Wizards Presents: Classes and Races and Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters. The first live demos of 4th Edition will happen at the D&D Experience gaming convention in Washington D.C. in February 2008. The full scope of 4th Edition books, miniatures, and adventures will be available in the spring and summer of 2008.

General Changes:
* Still a d20 game!
* 30 Levels: Levels 1-10, 11-20: Paragon, 21-30: Epic.
* D&D products released between now and the launch of 4th Edition will fall into three groups. Edition-proof products (which are mostly story) will not include mechanics that are edition-specific. Some products will be "enhanced" to 4th Edition mechanics after release through DnDInsider, and a couple of series will end as 3.5 products.
* The setting for the core books are campaign neutral. Forgotten Realms will be the first campaign setting to be updated (in August 2008). Other campaign settings will be updated at a rate of one per year.
* Seems likely that attacker rolls dice against target number for everything - attacks, spells, etc. as in SW: Saga Edition.

Philosophy of the Change:
Design game elements for their intended use. Secondary uses are nice, but not a goal. Basically, when we build a monster we intend you to use it as a monster. If we build a feat, it's meant as a feat, not a monster special attack. If we also want to make it a playable character race, we'll design a separate racial write up for it. We won't try to shoehorn a monster stat block into becoming a PC stat block. The designs must inform each other, but we're better off building two separate game elements rather than one that tries to multiclass.

As an example, the a theoretical minotaur PC race write up draws on and evokes the feel of the minotaur monster, but it doesn't simply copy over the rules. - Mike Mearls

In Fourth Edition, we've totally revamped the math behind the system, and that's a big part of the way that we've extended the sweet spot across the whole level range. When PCs fight monsters of their level, they'll find that the math of the system is more or less the same at level 30 as it is at level 1. There will always be variation with different PCs and different monsters, but that variation won't be so great that monsters are either too deadly or too weak. - James Wyatt

Races
* Races will grant abilities at levels other than first - most of the abilities will be gained in the first 10 levels, but there will be some gained at higher levels.
* Dwarven Resilience (1st level)
* Elven Evasion (1st level)
* Half-Elven Inspiring Presence (1st level)
* Racial Feats to improve racial abilities
* Racial-specific Powers for class, accomplishing what Subsitution levels did. Example: Dwarf Fighter with "Friend of Earth" power at 10th level

Characters
* An 8th level power (or spell) is a power you gain at 8th level. (Thadir's FAQ)

* "We are doing something different with hit points. It's not exactly what you described, but characters will be more likely to survive a single hit at low level. I like to say the changes we've made make it so you won't go down in one hit at low level or high level." (Thadir's FAQ)

* All classes let you do a little of all three. At-will powers are there so you never run out of options. Per-encounter powers are there so you can always take it up a notch. Per-day powers are there so you can really bring down the thunder when you need to.

* There are 8 classes in PH1, but more will come out later in other books and the magazines. Think of it this way: There are many classes, but each will fit into one of the four roles. This way you have plenty of variability, but you can always be sure that the class is filling a basic function it's expected to. (Logan Bonner)

* Four roles: Striker, Defender, Controller, Leader. All classes fit one of those roles, with some hybrids.

* Cleric, Fighter, Rogue and Wizard are definitely in. Other classes are up for debate. Likely: Warlord, Ranger, Paladin, possibly Monk... but possibly not.

Cleric
* Healing power triggered by striking a creature in melee
* The cleric doesn't give up his attacks just because he can heal—it's part of his role. (Thadir's FAQ)

Fighter
* "Martial" power source being non-magical, as will manuevers. Non-anime.
* That being said, at high levels, the fighter does push beyond the limits of human (or elf or dwarf) ability. Also, if someone wanted to make their fighter more magical-feeling, they could muck about with the flavor of the powers to make them less mundane. (Thadir's FAQ)

Rogue
* The rogue (for example) still has plenty of social focus. The thing is, we don't take away his combat ability because of it. (Thadir's FAQ)

Wizard
* Fireball doesn't do 1d6 per level any more.

Multiclass
* Multiclass wizards (gish) will be more balanced from the beginning. (Dave Noonan)

Monsters
* Statblocks will be simplified, and not the same as for PCs.
* A very enjoyable part of this work is designing sample encounters for the monsters. We talked just today about whether that would be better on D&D Insider, but we agreed that it's important to reinforce the message that an interesting encounter consists of multiple, different monsters grouped in interesting ways. - James Wyatt

* [In 3e, we] end up jumping through dozens of hoops set up by the rules of monster design. If I don’t use all the monster’s skill points, it’s “wrong.” If I give it more than the “correct” number of feats, I have to explain that it has a bonus feat. And don’t even think about putting that ogre in full plate without advancing it enough to gain the Armor Proficiency (heavy) feat. Good grief. I want to design a cool monster, not wrestle with the system for hours. Thankfully, 4th edition is doing it completely differently. Monsters are being designed for their intended use: as monsters. We’re not shoehorning them into the character system and hoping what comes out works in the game. Of course, they look alike in many ways and use the same game system, but now the results matter, not the rules for minutiae. - Matt Sernett <- read this entry!


Digital Versions of Rulebooks
* Each paper product will include codes to unlock digital versions on the site for a "nominal" activation fee.

Wizards Presents: Classes and Races
* December 2007
* An introduction to the changes of 4e.

Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters
* December 2007
* An introduction to the changes of 4e

Keep of the Shadowfell
* April 2008
* Adventure for 1st-3rd level PCs
* Includes pre-generated characters
* Will include a set of quickstart rules for 4E.
* Quick-start rulebook; adventure booklet; player booklet; 3 poster maps.
* Additional content on D&D Insider.
* The adventure is designed to show off all sorts of 4e stuff. It serves as a quick start guide, but while parts of it are there to teach rules, it's a full-blown D&D adventure. You'll need to roleplay, figure out puzzles, out-think the bad guys, and everything else you need to do in D&D. Oh yeah, and there's tons of monsters to fight. - Mike Mearls

Player's Handbook 4e
* May 2008
* 288 pages, done in a more "magazine" format - i.e. lots of diagrams and pictures.
* Levels 1-30
* Includes Magic Items
* Many complex rules eliminated or simplified (Grapple!)
* New page layout; new character options
* Character advancement is meaningful at each level
* High level play as fun and meaningful as low level.
* Character class roles are going to be more tightly defined within the rules.
* New power sources will be introduced for the other classes.
* Resource Management overhauled. Game will keep going even when the caster
is out of spells.

Monster Manual 4e
* June 2008
* 288 pages.
* Full colour illustrations; easy-to-use format.
* Simplified Statblocks (NPC and Monster, I guess)
* Monster rules are being redefined - DM will have easier time finding right
monster for the right job.

Dungeon Master's Guide 4e
* July 2008
* 224 pages.
* Helps DMs run great games, create exciting adventures, and weave their own D&D campaigns.
* Game will be easy to DM.

D&D Insider
* Players will also be able to use DnDInsider tools and access regular new content similar to the material that was previously released in Dragon and Dungeon magazines for a monthly fee greater than the old subscription price, but less than a MMORPG subscription.
* Monthly fee $10/month (source: PDF handout)
* Magazine-style content will be added to the site three times a week and compiled into digital "issues" monthly.
* This is the "D&D Online" section of Gleemax
* It contains a "Dungeon Master's Kit" that includes the following:
- dungeon builder (map tool)
- adventure builder
- PC generator
- other things (Source: Wizards forum post)
* "Character Generator"
- character sheets
- character visualizer (Source: Wizards forum post)
* "My Campaign"
* "My Character" (source: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=905809)
* "D&D Game Table" (source: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=905805)
* "Dungeon & Dragon Magazines" (source: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=905804)

D&Di Game Table
* It will not adjudicate game rules.
* Like your normal games it will be up to the DM to share his or her house rules for his or her players, and enforce them using the voice interaction provided by the VOIP, the text chat window, and the DM's settings. (Thadir's FAQ)

The Dungeons & Dragons Insider Package
Quote:
Become a Dungeons & Dragons Insider and gain access to exclusive content designed specifically with D&D players in mind. As part of your monthly subscription, you gain access to features designed to enhance your D&D experience, including:

D&D Insider Magazine, online magazine with new content updated daily, including:

-Product Previews (articles showcasing upcoming D&D products)
-Class Features (articles expanding existing character class options and debuting new character and prestige classes)
-Strategy and Tactics (articles relating to D&D roleplaying combat and spellcasting, and to D&D Miniatures Skirmish play)
-Design and Development (articles and columns exploring the many facets of the D&D experience, written by game designers in D&D R&D)
-D&D Humor (comic strips devoted to the D&D experience)

D&D Product Enhancements (expanded content for D&D products you bought, including interactive content such as searchable indexes, extra features, behind the scenes articles, game designer and developer commentary, and more)

Exclusive Content that expands your favorite campaign world

-Eberron and Forgotten Realms ongoing content
-Interactive maps
-World events and adventure hooks

D&D University

-Rolling six-week course to help make you a better D&D player
-Course message boards
-Player tip of the week from D&D R&D

- MyCharacter.Com pages that you can design and populate, with a Premium Customization Kit that includes D&D art, frames, and icons
- Private Message Boards that give you a direct line to D&D R&D
- Premium RPGA Membership Card mailed to you
- Fast Lane Registration at all RPGA events (online and in the real world)
- The Magic Shop, a virtual shop where you can outfit your D&D character

D&D Character Builder, a program that helps you create and manage your D&D characters. This program allows you to create a character for any D&D game, walking you through the process of rolling the dice and assigning your game statistics, as well as creating a visual version of your character using "paper doll" models and "drag and click" selections of armor and weapons. At the end, you can save your character and print out a character sheet, as well as go to any D&D tournament and call up your character for use, or use the character at the Virtual Gaming Table (see below). With this package, you get to create and store up to 10 different characters or up to 10 different versions of one character (your character at different levels), or some combination of the two.

-Exclusive D&D-related novels and short stories written by your favorite authors
-Real-World D&D Search Engines (find D&D gamers, game stores, tournaments, and events in your area)
-In-Game D&D Search Engines (find feats, spells, magic items, and other D&D-related topics)

Digital Gaming Table, a program that allows you to play D&D using the Internet as your kitchen table, with a viewable play surface, dice rolling, virtual miniatures, and voice chat. Now you don't have to wait for your home gaming group to get together to play a game of D&D. You can still play your weekly face-to-face game, but now you can also play two or three more times a week by finding a game at the virtual table. Or, you might want to reconnect with your old gaming pals who long ago moved away-now you can all play together again on a regular basis! With this package, you get to play at the table 3 times per month.
Source: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.ph...eferrerid=4046

Open Gaming Licence
* 4th edition will be OGL
* There will be a new SRD
* Details on the new d20 System License (or equivalent) are still being worked out. It seems unlikely there will be a fee.
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Old 16th August 2007, 04:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm getting a "sukael, you do not have permission to access this page." message on all of those links. EDIT: The gleemax ones, I mean. The ENWorld link works fine ;D
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukael
I'm getting a "sukael, you do not have permission to access this page." message on all of those links. EDIT: The gleemax ones, I mean. The ENWorld link works fine ;D
It's a LOCKDOWN!
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Wow, no OGL. That will mean a definite forking of D&D.
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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It's interesting that the forums had a listing for 4E Eberron and 4E Forgotten Realms, but no mention of Greyhawk, Dragonlance, etc.
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:08 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Interesting times. If it's old school, I'll probably buy it (at least the core). If not, I'll remain a bitter grognard playing C&C and my out-of-print Gygax-era stuff.
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:17 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Xyxox
Wow, no OGL. That will mean a definite forking of D&D.
Not really.

The fan stuff kinda-sorta sucks, but it keeps people from reprinting 100% of the released material on their geocities site. And it only sucks for the publishers if WotC is real tight with the license. So far they've been pretty cool with their IP (mind flayers, beholders, etc).

What it does is allow WotC to avoid a Book of Erotic Fantasy 2: The FATAL Edition. And game stores won't get screwed with a d20 glut.
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takasi
It's interesting that the forums had a listing for 4E Eberron and 4E Forgotten Realms, but no mention of Greyhawk, Dragonlance, etc.
Not that surprising. They did have "other settings" as an option. Currently Eberron and Realms are the only two supported 3e settings (and have been the only two throughout Wizards' 3e run, not counting one-off books).

Cheers!
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Xyxox
Wow, no OGL. That will mean a definite forking of D&D.
I'm not entirely convinced that's a bad thing, depending on how hard/expensive they make it to licence 4E. There are some great 3rd-party publishers to be certain, but (over the years) there has been some very, very bad ones too.

Maybe requiring a licencing fee will keep the quality up from the very beginning. Just a thought.
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:21 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks, Merric.
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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It may also allow a 3rd party to do an adventure with... mind flayers...

Cheers!
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggusGeekus
Not really.

The fan stuff kinda-sorta sucks, but it keeps people from reprinting 100% of the released material on their geocities site. And it only sucks for the publishers if WotC is real tight with the license. So far they've been pretty cool with their IP (mind flayers, beholders, etc).

What it does is allow WotC to avoid a Book of Erotic Fantasy 2: The FATAL Edition. And game stores won't get screwed with a d20 glut.
Well, to be honest, it's already forked. Green Ronin forked with True20 as a means to avoid 4E and new licensing.
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjorimir
I'm not entirely convinced that's a bad thing, depending on how hard/expensive they make it to licence 4E. There are some great 3rd-party publishers to be certain, but (over the years) there has been some very, very bad ones too.

Maybe requiring a licencing fee will keep the quality up from the very beginning. Just a thought.
I'm reserving judgement until I can read the full details of the 4E licensing structure. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised.
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:33 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjorimir
I'm not entirely convinced that's a bad thing, depending on how hard/expensive they make it to licence 4E. There are some great 3rd-party publishers to be certain, but (over the years) there has been some very, very bad ones too.

Maybe requiring a licencing fee will keep the quality up from the very beginning. Just a thought.
Eh - personally, the reason I liked 3.x so much was the 3rd party stuff from the smaller guys/startups. The vast majority of the bad products were shovelware from the larger established RPG companies looking to cash in (AEG/FFG/Avalanche). There were exceptions like Mongoose and Fast Forward (a new company make up of industry vets) that also glutted the market, but I bet those 5 companies accounted for 90% of the bad material.

Granted, the presentation from some of the smaller companies was bad (like early Mystic Eye products), but the actual content was quite good, I thought.
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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so is this for real? 4e is coming out this gen con?

if thats true, that kindof sucks imho. I was working on a really awesome 3.5 campaign setting. Probably still going to go through with it, and maybe convert to 4e if i can get a license.

think their will still be a big market for 3.5 in a few years?
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:43 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Moon-Lancer
so is this for real? 4e is coming out this gen con?

if thats true, that kindof sucks imho. I was working on a really awesome 3.5 campaign setting. Probably still going to go through with it, and maybe convert to 4e if i can get a license.

think their will still be a big market for 3.5 in a few years?
We only know that WotC is only announcing 4E, not when it is comming out. My guess is GenCon 08, but that's pure conjecture on my part.
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:49 AM   #17 (permalink)
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think their will still be a big market for 3.5 in a few years?
I imagine. There are going to be plenty of people who have invested so heavily in 3.5E that they won't want to turn around ... or they'll want to do both until the sources for 4E are varied. Think about it. After being used to playing a sorcerer/fighter/spellsword/Eldritch Knight ... would you want to go back to a core only game for a while? Yeah, it'd be fun to try out the new rules ... but there will be a while while people still want the options.

Once 4E has an opportunity to build up its resource books, though, the 3.5 market will probably diminish. Those who stay with 3.5 will do so because they already have more than they need in a lifetime of gaming.
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:49 AM   #18 (permalink)
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so is this for real? 4e is coming out this gen con?
Nope. As best we can tell, the announcement will officially be made at GenCon. That suggests, to me, at least six months to a year before it's actually out.
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Old 16th August 2007, 05:54 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Nonlethal Force
I imagine. There are going to be plenty of people who have invested so heavily in 3.5E that they won't want to turn around ... or they'll want to do both until the sources for 4E are varied. Think about it. After being used to playing a sorcerer/fighter/spellsword/Eldritch Knight ... would you want to go back to a core only game for a while? Yeah, it'd be fun to try out the new rules ... but there will be a while while people still want the options.

Once 4E has an opportunity to build up its resource books, though, the 3.5 market will probably diminish. Those who stay with 3.5 will do so because they already have more than they need in a lifetime of gaming.
Actually, I'm pretty excited about the thought of the game downsizing...at least for the time being. Then again, I'm in the camp that wants 4E to be STREAMLINED.

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Old 16th August 2007, 05:57 AM   #20 (permalink)
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DaveMage Orc Berserker (Lvl 4)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouseferatu
Nope. As best we can tell, the announcement will officially be made at GenCon. That suggests, to me, at least six months to a year before it's actually out.

So much for using the D&D Experience to make major announcements about D&D.
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