D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
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Here's some stuff from R&C to chew on. My goal is to open up more discussion, not cut-and--paste from the book or otherwise 'spoil' it.
Appears that fighters are meant to melee. If you want to focus on a ranged weapon, I think you're supposed to choose a different class. Makes sense--'ranged' and 'defender' don't really go together.
Chose a fighting style: either sword-and-board for a defensive build or 2H weapon for offensive.
Mentions "it would be possible to include support for the dancer fencer or the two-weapon fighter."
I take this to mean that these won't be directly supported in the 1st PHB.
Then, builds usually follow one of these three: assault (goes with the 2H), defense (w/ sword/shield), and control (to hinder and constrain the enemy.)
Armor Categories (in order):
Heavy Clothes
Leather
Hide
Chain
Scale
Plate
(each category has neat options, like feyweave, razorscale, etc.)
Shields appear to be slabs of awesome! Maybe I can finally make the Warduke type character I wanted in high school--helmet, shield, and tighty-whiteys is all I need for protection!
Weapons:
Simplest--maces and spears
massive damage-- warhammer, maul
less damage, better accuracy--swords
in between those two--axes
finesse (rogues, rangers)--short sword, scimitar, rapier
(there is mention of twin scimitars here, so I take it TWF will be an option, but maybe not a fully fleshed out one?)
I just hit the discussion points... there are plenty more juicy tidbits about each one of these topics (4 full pages!) that you need to read yourself!
Chose a fighting style: either sword-and-board for a defensive build or 2H weapon for offensive.
Mentions "it would be possible to include support for the dancer fencer or the two-weapon fighter."
I take this to mean that these won't be directly supported in the 1st PHB.
I wish they were supported too, but after my experience with the 3e fighter, I've given up on the possibility of using the same class to create sword and shield, two handed weapon, two weapon, and fencer style characters.
I'm intrigued by the "better accuracy" line in the referencing swords.
I didnt either, at first. Then i realized that the dex-based TWFing fighter or the agile swashbuckling fighter characters arent "fighters" anyway. If the ranger is good at ranged attacks and i want a ranged attacker then i really dont need a fighter to be a bowman and if the rogue is a good finesse-based rapier wielder then i dont need the fighter do to that either. If they make a fighter that can do either sword and board or THF, at least they will have effectively given the 4E fighter twice as many viable combat styles than he had in 3E.
(each category has neat options, like feyweave, razorscale, etc.)
Oh, good. I would hate for a poor, inexperienced character to have to start with chainmail and a decent sword. A 1st level PC shouldn't be leaving the house without feyrazor-woven mithradamantite astral battleplate and a talking, hellforged sword the size of a Boeing 747.
I didnt either, at first. Then i realized that the dex-based TWFing fighter or the agile swashbuckling fighter characters arent "fighters" anyway. If the ranger is good at ranged attacks and i want a ranged attacker then i really dont need a fighter to be a bowman and if the rogue is a good finesse-based rapier wielder then i dont need the fighter do to that either. If they make a fighter that can do either sword and board or THF, at least they will have effectively given the 4E fighter twice as many viable combat styles than he had in 3E.
What about the two-weapon guy who isn't a lightly-armored agility finesse kind of guy? Not possible?
Appears that fighters are meant to melee. If you want to focus on a ranged weapon, I think you're supposed to choose a different class. Makes sense--'ranged' and 'defender' don't really go together.
I think this makes a lot of sense. A Fighter that can do "any kind of fighting" only makes sense in a game with a very condensed class list (like the UA 'basic classes'). D&D classes are a bit more specialized that that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper Steve
Mentions "it would be possible to include support for the dancer fencer or the two-weapon fighter."
I take this to mean that these won't be directly supported in the 1st PHB.
From what I hear about the Rogue, I don't even see the point in a "dancer fencer" type. A Rogue with a bit of "Fighter Training" seems to get you what you need there.
As for TWF ... well, I've never been a big fan of it, but I'm sure there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth from those who are. Oh well. WotC'll get around to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper Steve
Then, builds usually follow one of these three: assault (goes with the 2H), defense (w/ sword/shield), and control (to hinder and constrain the enemy.)
What type of equipment is associated with "control"? (please don't say "spiked chain", please don't say "spiked chain", please don't say "spiked chain")
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper Steve
Armor Categories (in order):
Heavy Clothes
Leather
Hide
Chain
Scale
Plate
(each category has neat options, like feyweave, razorscale, etc.)
Wow. This is a "out of left field" change. We went from three categories of armor to six? I have no idea at this time if this is good or bad, but it is certainly interesting.
Somehow I doubt my personal quirk will be accomodated, but I wonder if under the "unusual materials" section for armor in addition to "mithril" and "adamantium" or whatever they'll have rules for bronze and iron armor and weapons. With the introduction of the Fey and the Feywild as major parts of the game, non-iron/steel weapons may become more prevalent, and they can't all be mithril ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reap Stever
Shields appear to be slabs of awesome! Maybe I can finally make the Warduke type character I wanted in high school--helmet, shield, and tighty-whiteys is all I need for protection!
Good to hear about the shields. They've never gotten enough love. Anything more specific to add so that we can have a discussion?
No comment on the sophomoric desires to run around in your underwear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper Steve
Weapons:
Simplest--maces and spears
massive damage-- warhammer, maul
less damage, better accuracy--swords
in between those two--axes
finesse (rogues, rangers)--short sword, scimitar, rapier
Again, an increase in the number of categories. One thing I think this change (and the change to armor categories) will allow is more refined distinction between which classes gain access to which armor types. With only Light, Medium and Heavy, you could only slice it so many ways. Now perhaps only Fighters and Paladins have access to Plate Armor (Clerics and Warlords top out at Scale) and the "massive damage" weapons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper Steve
(there is mention of twin scimitars here, so I take it TWF will be an option, but maybe not a fully fleshed out one?)
I think a problem they are facing is how to deal with multiple attacks. If they have removed the "full attack" option, then everyone gets one attack per round - except the TWF guy. He "breaks the rules" in a way that could seriously mess with class balance.
For instance, the TWF guy might superficially seem similar to the THW guy - lower defense relative to Shield-guy, but more damage. But, that's only from a damage point of view. If you have an ability that works on a hit (say, a Knockdown effect, or a Stun effect) you are twice as effective with these "special effects" as either of the other two guys. You could start making odd rules to address this, but it makes a game a lot more complicated. Would it be worth it? I can't say, but there's the problem as I see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper Steve
I just hit the discussion points... there are plenty more juicy tidbits about each one of these topics (4 full pages!) that you need to read yourself!
Hmm. Maybe we need to establish a forum (not necessarily here at EN World) for people who have it ...
I know that when I get my copy (later this week, hopefully) I will want to discuss ALL of it.
__________________ I don't "tell stories" when I play D&D. I adventure. Afterward, when the gold is counted and the bodies piled high, we may tell stories about how it all went down. Or not.
Oh, good. I would hate for a poor, inexperienced character to have to start with chainmail and a decent sword. A 1st level PC shouldn't be leaving the house without feyrazor-woven mithradamantite astral battleplate and a talking, hellforged sword the size of a Boeing 747.
Wow. Epic ranks in your Jump to Conclusion skill, impressive.
Oh, good. I would hate for a poor, inexperienced character to have to start with chainmail and a decent sword. A 1st level PC shouldn't be leaving the house without feyrazor-woven mithradamantite astral battleplate and a talking, hellforged sword the size of a Boeing 747.
Your attitude is not appreciated. Yours was not a constructive or helpful post.
Obviously these are "upgrades" to normal armor that you acquire or earn at higher levels, not something you start with at 1st level.
__________________ I don't "tell stories" when I play D&D. I adventure. Afterward, when the gold is counted and the bodies piled high, we may tell stories about how it all went down. Or not.
What type of equipment is associated with "control"? (please don't say "spiked chain", please don't say "spiked chain", please don't say "spiked chain")
Perhaps control abilities are equally accessible to shield-users and two-handers.
Quote:
Wow. This is a "out of left field" change. We went from three categories of armor to six? I have no idea at this time if this is good or bad, but it is certainly interesting.
Yeah... on the one hand I like simplicity, but on the other hand this way the various armors might all see use, instead of everyone just grabbing the best one out of whichever category.
Quote:
I think a problem they are facing is how to deal with multiple attacks. If they have removed the "full attack" option, then everyone gets one attack per round - except the TWF guy. He "breaks the rules" in a way that could seriously mess with class balance.
I think they've already mentioned other ways to gain extra attacks, like a special sword power?
Also, TWFing can be represented in more ways than just gaining extra attacks with the second weapon.
Oh, good. I would hate for a poor, inexperienced character to have to start with chainmail and a decent sword. A 1st level PC shouldn't be leaving the house without feyrazor-woven mithradamantite astral battleplate and a talking, hellforged sword the size of a Boeing 747.
Now that's just being ridiculous.
Now, if you had said "school bus," instead of Boeing 747, I would have been right with you.
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