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Well, Races & Classes says he'll likely be a Striker. That may change, but it seems unlikely to me that they would be sure of the change before starting serious design. The power source, though, they probably decided on some time ago. So I expect he won't be Martial.
The description of the Monk in Races & Classes seems to pretty much rule out Divine, and makes Psionic sound unlikely. So I'm expecting the Monk to be a Ki Striker.
This doesn't leave many choices. I don't see them Primal or Shadow, so I predict Monk will be Ki/Striker to be released in PH III or IV.
I'm curious if the Swordmage gets a re-print in PHBII (for those of us who don't want the FR book). I mean, if the Bard pops up in the PHB II, he's going to be Arcane, so there'll be arcane in there too, ne?
And if the Barb and Druid are popping up in the PHB II, I'm wondering what their roles are. Both make decent defenders or strikers (although we've been told that the Druid is a hybrid, can take several roles). What about the Sorcerer and Elementalist? Are they one in the same?
And man. When are we going to get the Necromancer and Illusionist?
I'm curious if the Swordmage gets a re-print in PHBII (for those of us who don't want the FR book). I mean, if the Bard pops up in the PHB II, he's going to be Arcane, so there'll be arcane in there too, ne?
One would hope so. Personally, I think it'll pop up. Well, we'll see. I'm also wondering what races we'll get. Gnome is probably a given. The Drow and Genasi may also appear (reprinted from Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, too). Hopefully the Half-Orc as well. What other races can potentially turn up, though? Any must-haves in the PHBII that I'm missing?
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And if the Barb and Druid are popping up in the PHB II, I'm wondering what their roles are. Both make decent defenders or strikers (although we've been told that the Druid is a hybrid, can take several roles). What about the Sorcerer and Elementalist? Are they one in the same?
Barbarian is most likely a Primal Defender. The Druid is a tough one, though. They've said that the relationship between the Druid and the Barbarian is the same as that between the Cleric and the Paladin. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the Druid will be a Leader. It's shapechanging leaves a pretty big question mark as to what role it'll fit, as well as spellcasting (they'll have spellcasting, but it doesn't appear that their spellcasting is all that important). As for Sorcerer and Elementalist, they're probably separate classes.
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And man. When are we going to get the Necromancer and Illusionist?
I want to know the answer to that, too. Especially when it comes to the Necromancer. I plan on converting Ravenloft to 4E as soon as I get my hands on the books, and the lack of a Necromancer is something of a blow. So the sooner that comes out, the better, so I can mine it for abilities for characters like Strahd and Azalin.
I'm curious if the Swordmage gets a re-print in PHBII (for those of us who don't want the FR book). I mean, if the Bard pops up in the PHB II, he's going to be Arcane, so there'll be arcane in there too, ne?
IMO FRPH will be the only place to get the Swordmage. You will have to either buy FRPH, or subscribe to DDI to have access to the D&D Rules Compendium (or as another poster suggested you can wait for a PDF to show up somewhere).
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And if the Barb and Druid are popping up in the PHB II, I'm wondering what their roles are. Both make decent defenders or strikers (although we've been told that the Druid is a hybrid, can take several roles).
I predict Druid's role will be Striker/Controller. Barbarian's role is less clear, they can be Defender, or Striker, or hybrid.
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What about the Sorcerer and Elementalist? Are they one in the same?
I see both of them Primal/Controller.
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And man. When are we going to get the Necromancer and Illusionist?
I think they will be both linked to Shadow power source, and if they decide to favor psionic for PH II, I think they'll show up in PH III along with the Monk in Summer 2010. That's so long. Personally, I would prefer Shadow would be in PH II instead of Psionic. To each their own I guess.
Last edited by MaelStorm; 20th April 2008 at 10:33 PM..
It's also probably worth mentioning that Martial Power is not slated to contain any new classes, which is interesting since a lot of people were expecting it to.
Okay, I'm updating the first post to include that, along with a note that PHBs will be the main place to introduce new classes.
Also, I'm updating the PHB2 info to note that it was said that classes "not unlike the Druid, Barbarian, and Bard" would appear, which isn't really confirmation of those.
I actually like the idea of the Monk as a Divine Striker... keep the religious classes Divine. (Let's see if someone starts to argue that a Monk isn't religion-based.)
I pulling for Monks being Divine Strikers as well.
I predict Druid's role will be Striker/Controller. Barbarian's role is less clear, they can be Defender, or Striker, or hybrid.
I think that you could make the case that both the Druid and the Barb could be efficient strikers or defenders.
A Druid in bear form can be a defender. As could a tough barbarian. A druid in leopard form makes an efficient striker. Barbarians are fast and lightly armored, and can dish out a lot of damage, making it a good striker.
I don't deny that a druid could take the controller role, or the leader role, due to their spellcasting. But I'm willing to bet that when we see the druid, you're going to have to decide upon creation which they're going to be good at; shapeshifting and beating stuff up, or spellcasting.
And if Elementalists and Sorcerers are going to pop up, both of them being Controllers, both Primal, then I don't think there's room for a Druid also playing Controller. So they'll likely get the possibility of filling in as a Leader.
I think that you could make the case that both the Druid and the Barb could be efficient strikers or defenders.
A Druid in bear form can be a defender. As could a tough barbarian. A druid in leopard form makes an efficient striker. Barbarians are fast and lightly armored, and can dish out a lot of damage, making it a good striker.
I don't deny that a druid could take the controller role, or the leader role, due to their spellcasting. But I'm willing to bet that when we see the druid, you're going to have to decide upon creation which they're going to be good at; shapeshifting and beating stuff up, or spellcasting.
And if Elementalists and Sorcerers are going to pop up, both of them being Controllers, both Primal, then I don't think there's room for a Druid also playing Controller. So they'll likely get the possibility of filling in as a Leader.
All very good points. It'll be interesting to see how they'll handle hybrid roles. Personally, I don't think they'll go that far regarding the Druid's spellcasting abilities. I think they'll have to choose their starting wildshape and that as they progress they will collect new ones. And that their will be build on brute or agile wildshape. I see barbarians as having leader abilities with warcries, plus some good striker or defender powers. Since the druid's controller role will be secondary I think there will be space for one pure controller. In the end, I think the Sorcerer will beat the elementalist and take is stuff.
Last edited by MaelStorm; 21st April 2008 at 01:14 AM..
In a The Tome podcast, the lead designers Andy Collins (whose specialty is 4E crunch), hinted that WotC is thinking on developing a new Divine class that will fill the role of the controller, it'll be more combat oriented (than the Priest) with ranged attack powers.
I listened to the podcast, and it is pretty interesting. Thanks! This is exactly the type of info I was hoping I'd learn by starting this thread.
Added this paragraph to the opening comment:
On The Tome, Andy Collins was asked about upcoming Controllers, and said they're still in the early design phase of the next wave of classes, but mentioned the Sorcerer is possible for that role, and they're thinking about a Divine Controller and some form of Psionic Controller. (It's at about 23:25 in the podcast.) He also mentioned "you're not going to see the Cleric throwing around Flame Strike type powers really frequently", but "when we get around to a Divine Controller class he will probably have more of those type of effects". (At about 27:30.)
Sounds cool. A little more variety with Controllers would be nice, as we only got one so far. As for the Psionic Controller, that'll probably be the Psion (They may change the name, but personally, I like it).
Anyway, has there been any indication as to how many pages the PHB II will be? I ask because, while the PHB I has eight classes, the PHB II may have more then that if it's got the same page count. The PHB I has dozens of pages devoted to equipment lists, skills, feats, and game rules. The PHB II will probably have some equipment and feats, but it's doubtful that it'll eat up as many pages as the PHB I counterparts. We probably won't get any new skills, and there's no need to repeat the rules in the PHB II. In which case, all that excess space can be used for classes, instead.
So assuming a 320-page PHB II, it may be possible to pack in 10, or even 12 classes. Boy, I hope so, cause that'd be great. You could stick in the Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Illusionist, Monk, Necromancer, Psion, Psychic Warrior, Sorcerer, and Swordmage, and probably still have enough room left over to stick in another class or two (Maybe a Samurai [Ki Defender] and the aformentioned Divine Controller?). Well, we'll see.
Thanks, that's awesome. Could you do us a favor though and paste the gleemax stuff in here? They still own my brain. I'm still unable to log in. It's really damn lame. I'm so hoping the D&D Insider has nothing to do with gleemax.
__________________ Gary Gygax: "Thank you for teaching us how to fight monsters."
I'm thinking they might split Psion into two classes: Kineticist (controller) and Telepath (Leader). I imagine the Telepath would then be somewhat similar to the Warlord, but without swinging a weapon in the frontline, and the Kineticist would have many pushes/pulls/slides alongside damage.
Of course, that's pure speculation/wishful thinking.
So today's Warlord excerpt also mentions the shaman as a class that fills the cleric's role, so that info has been added to the first post.
I think it's pretty safe to assume he'll be a Primal Leader.
Classes in the PH II:
new Arcane Classes: Bard (confirmed)
new Divine Classes: ?divine/striker? and divine/controller
Primal Classes: Barbarian, Druid, Shaman, and Sorcerer. (mostly confirmed)
Psionic Classes: 4 classes maybe???
So, where does this put the druid, barbarian, sorcerer, swordmage, and monk for roles?
They've said that the druid heals as well as the cleric in an interview. The only ones who should be allowed to do that are leaders. But they've said that the Druid's role is more of a hybrid. I'm guessing Leader/Striker or Leader/Controller.
The Swordmage is definitely a Defender. One of the designers said that it was the result of looking at the power sources and roles and wondering what an arcane defender might look like.
The sorcerer is very likely to be a controller or striker. As for Barbarian: Striker or Defender seem like the only valid choices. Very likely Defender. Monk...who knows.
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Secret Attorney of the Guidelines for the <Sorry, you didn't make the DC 20 Perception check, and you don't have another minor action to try again. Next time try finding an Elf to stand nearby you.>
If the swordmage is a defender and the barbarian a defender that would cover 4 power sources: martial, divine, arcane, and primal. It will be interesting to see what a shadow and psionic defender look like.
Maybe the PHBII ends up with 8 more classes to cover 4 classes in each role for each of the first 4 power sources.
It will be interesting to see what a shadow and psionic defender look like.
Shadow: Hexblade. I'd expect the "Marking" technique to be expanded. For instance, the paladin's "Divine Challenge" marks the target, and if the target attacks anyone but the paladin, they take radiant damage. The Hexblade could hex others in a similar fashion.
Psionic: Psychic Warrior. Which I'm curious how it would differ from a psionic version of the Swordmage.
Last edited by Rechan; 22nd April 2008 at 06:08 AM..
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