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Old 23rd April 2008, 02:04 AM   1 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kobold Avenger
Try 1e, that's where the Monk first appeared.
Which doesn't impact the complaints. The Assassin was in 1e, and it was regulated to Evil PrC in DMG in 3e.

But, okay, with your predictions and where things should be, we'll see if WotC groups them in an Asian power source or not.
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Old 23rd April 2008, 02:58 AM   #62 (permalink)
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That's really nice, but there are so many things that people want the Monk to be:

Kung fu interior mystic (See: 3e)

Non-mystical, non-magical unarmed attacker.

A divine-related class. A psionic class. A ki class. A martial class.

A striker, a controller. And you're saying a defender.

There's too much that people expect from the monk for it to all go into one thing. A decision must be made. And it's easier to split the Monk up into different areas than to try and do it either one way or cram them all together.

As to the "asian" power source, you have any idea how much complaining has gone on since the Monk was in 3e? How it didn't "Fit" the "Fantasy Genre" that most people wanted? Same thing. The genre or flavor didn't fit. So the monk/ninja/samurai gets put in its own little area because the "I don't like oriental flavor in my fantasy" is too vocal a group to ignore.

You're dealing with different vocal fanbases that expect different things, and thus the biggest groups will get what they want, not individuals that want it all.

I'm not telling you what I want. I'm telling you how it's going to be. I will bet you cash that market research reflects the above, and what I said here is how WotC is going to do it. No matter individual preferences to the contrary.
I really agree 100% with you.

Maybe 4E will introduce an oriental flavored Player's Handbook. Or maybe they'll go on with the Ki power source in a future Player's Handbook.
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Old 23rd April 2008, 10:37 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Kensai is quite clearly in the Martial power source as a Paragon Path for a Martial power source class, and not in any "Asian" power source.
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Old 23rd April 2008, 11:48 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffhartsell
It will be interesting to see what a ... psionic defender look like.
Jedi. Though he's possibly a Controller with Force Push. And a Striker with Force Choke and Force Lightling. And a Leader with Cloud the Weakminded ("Arise, those wounds are not as bad as you think they are.").

Awh, forget it. Jedi is just the 3E Cleric of Star Wars (the movies, not SWSE).


Oh, and Ki is just "Asian Martial." There is no need whatsoever for a Ki Power Source. The Kensei Fighter-only Paragon Path says WotC agrees with me. One of my first characters may well be a "ninja" that's just a Rogue in black pyjamas, or maybe a Shaoulin Monk that's just a Rogue in red pyjamas, has the Unarmed Attack feat and took "Religion" instead of "Thievery."
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Old 24th April 2008, 12:02 AM   #65 (permalink)
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What I'm interested with psionic classes is how they'll deal with previous psionic ideas in previous editions.

Psionic Focus: Was described as being one of WotC's early attempts at having encounter powers. Could be in, but might be too complicated with the whole Maintained/Expended Focus dichotomy everything had.

Attack Modes: I'm 95% sure that most of the psionic attack modes will be At Will powers.

Power Points: Probably out of the system now, based on how powers work.

Crystals/Snot/Ectoplasm: Probably in, because it's something unique for psionics, even though it doesn't match a lot of people's ideas on what psionics should use.

Dorjes/Psi-crowns: Possibly in as "psionic implements", but then again they were "psionic-X" versions of wands and staffs, so they could be out.

Mantles/Auras: If there's an Ardent/Divine Mind 2.0 these might be back in.

Soulknives: Probably will be in, in some form, since the imagery of soulknives is something that WotC probably wouldn't want to give up.
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Old 24th April 2008, 12:19 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Given that western fantasy has been swiping concepts and elements from eastern cultures for decades now, I wholeheartedly endorse the elimination of "cultural specificity" in D&D, especially in regards to power sources.

And I say that as someone who very much enjoys European fantasy all by itself. However, I can see the value in the fantastic hodgepodge WotC is pushing. One example of a work that has done this sort of cultural hodgepodge (though not everyone enjoys it) is Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. It has elements borrowed from Japanese culture, arabic culture, and various others. They're all thrown together and it is sometimes hard to identify where each piece comes from. The whole is more fantastic and original than just "Europe with a fantasy overlay."

As far as D&D itself goes, given that the monk was introduced to the game decades ago, and the last few editions gave us various celtic archetypes using scimitars, I think we're long past any "cultural purity" in D&D. Hell, one of my first homebrew items back when I was new to D&D was adding a ninja class.

Which is a long way of saying that I highly doubt we'll see a "Ki" power source. We may see the monk reappear as a psionic striker or a martial striker. On the other hand, the class we get may more closely resemble the swordsage instead.

I think it's highly likely that somewhere along the way, we'll get a class that closely resembles Jedi. As far as role, it might be a striker, or a defender, with or without a sub-role that has aspects of control to it.
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Old 24th April 2008, 01:05 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JohnSnow
We may see the monk reappear as a psionic striker or a martial striker.
Actually, Andy Collins has said he won't be a martial striker. (That's the kind of info this thread is for, though it's wandered far.)
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Old 25th April 2008, 12:34 PM   #68 (permalink)
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I think it's highly likely that somewhere along the way, we'll get a class that closely resembles Jedi. As far as role, it might be a striker, or a defender, with or without a sub-role that has aspects of control to it.
well... the psionic leader should be the perfect fit to the Jedi class in fantasy dress

the monk could be the psionic striker or martial controller (since it's 50% wrong that it's the martial striker), I would cast it as the martial controller
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Old 25th April 2008, 12:41 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kobold Avenger
What I'm interested with psionic classes is how they'll deal with previous psionic ideas in previous editions.
I hope they steer more toward the "mind mage" archetype than the more sci-fi psionicist of old editions, it's more a question of flavor than power

telekinesis -> mind hands
telepathy -> mind tongue

and so on
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Old 25th April 2008, 01:41 PM   #70 (permalink)
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You know, thinking about it, I wouldn't mind if the Monk were recast as a Divine Striker. That'd actually be kind of neat. Throw in a Priest (or whatever his name is) for a Divine Controller, and you can have a party which consists of members of a religious order. The Divine Defender, Divine Leader, Divine Striker, and Divine Controller. Paladin, Cleric, Monk, and Priest. That sounds pretty good to me.
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Old 1st May 2008, 04:00 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Added to the first post that Primal has been pretty much confirmed for PHB2 by this Dungeoncraft article, and that Races & Classes mentions the Druid & Barbarian as classes that will appear in PHB2.
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Old 17th May 2008, 05:00 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Added the following Sorcerer info to the first post:

It appears the Sorcerer will be an Arcane Controller. Rich Baker mentions thinking hard about "how it could occupy the same role and power source as the wizard but be a different class" (source), and Christopher Perkins mentions Sorcerer as a possibility for members of the Arcane Caste, along with Wizard and Warlock (source).
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Old 17th May 2008, 08:31 AM   #73 (permalink)
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The monk must be martial. Making the monk psionic or ki or etc would devalue the martial power source.
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Old 24th May 2008, 09:18 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Added to the first post a note that there's significant info on the Sorcerer here.
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Old 24th May 2008, 02:03 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rechan
Ki: Psionics::Arcane: Divine.

Arcane and Divine are both MAGIC, but they are different.

Ki and Psionics are both internal forces, but they are DIFFERENT.
Makes sense to me.


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Old 24th May 2008, 03:03 PM   #76 (permalink)
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The monk must be martial. Making the monk psionic or ki or etc would devalue the martial power source.
How does a divine monk devalue the martial power source? The Paladin existing doesn't somehow detract from the fighter. The warlock doesn't make the ranger and the rogue worthless. With the association of monks, fantastic powers, and religion it really makes more sense for the monk to be non-martial. That being said I do want to see an unarmed combatant for the martial side, even if it would just be a set of powers for the fighter which could only be used unarmed.
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Old 28th May 2008, 04:50 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Added Elemental and Ki as confirmed power sources, as reported by people who have the Player's Handbook.
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Old 5th June 2008, 12:21 PM   #78 (permalink)
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In many ways, 3e psions really were just wizards in funny hats. Now they're not. And?
Actually, Psions where the Wizards _without_ the funny hats.

As hong would they, instead they got snot.
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Old 5th June 2008, 03:12 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DDXP interview
CH: So the monk will be a martial striker? Can we call that a scoop?

Andy: (laughs) That’s at least 50% wrong. I shouldn’t say too much since we haven’t seriously started designing the class.
Ki striker ki striker ki striker

Am I the only one who sees this as blatantly obvious? Ki is confirmed in the PHB. Though since it has not been released i think you can be forgiven

I usually lurk, but after reading the 6th monk = divine/psi controller I dropped my head into the keyboard and posted
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Old 5th June 2008, 03:16 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Final Attack
Ki striker ki striker ki striker

Am I the only one who sees this as blatantly obvious? Ki is confirmed in the PHB. Though since it has not been released i think you can be forgiven

I usually lurk, but after reading the 6th monk = divine/psi controller I dropped my head into the keyboard and posted
For a head falling onto a keyboard, not a bad post.

And I agree. The Monk will most likely be a Ki Striker.
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