D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
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Friar Tuck in original legends is as good a swordsman as Robin hood.
With the mention of Ki its unlikely that monks will have any other source (pity, I liked Forgotten Realms tying monks strongly to churches)
Monsters: hoping they won't just be in MMs. I see Manual of the Planes as ideal for launching many creatures, not least including planar dragons. Shadow dragon in particular I would like to see.
Necromancer: would be nice if they appear in Open Grave. While PHs and campaign guides should contain most classes, this is one that deserves to come out earlier than PHIII.
There will be monsters in Manual of the Planes (MoP). If memory serves, and it was just yesterday, during the D&D Videocast a designer said he was working on a monster for MoP.
No idea, about races, but here's my take on classes.
I agree with most people on some:
B and B are barbarian (primal) and bard (arcane).
D is clearly druid (primal).
The most likely W, I think, is "witch," a primal controller.
T is, I'm thinking, Theurge, as others have said: a divine controller.
I'd say one "S" is probably Sorcerer. It was mentioned in Races and Classes, and it's probably arcane.
My bet on the others:
"S" is Shadowcaster - a new take on Ari's work for Tome of Magic.
"I" is Illusionist.
Making my own set of guesses:
- Barbarian: Constitution, Strength, (Dexterity), (Wisdom)
- Bard: Charisma, Dexterity, (Intelligence)
- Druid: Wisdom, Dexterity, (Strength)
- Shaman: Wisdom, Charisma, Constitution
- Theurge: Wisdom, Charisma, (Dexterity)
- Sorcerer: Charisma, Dexterity, Constitution
What exactly would a Friar Tuck monk bring to a party, besides cowering in a corner when the violence starts? Really, though, I'm having trouble imagining the archetype in an adventuring context.
In tradition, both fictional and historical, the primary strength/power of religious folks is social influence. Even in some fiction where the devoutly religious also have mystical power, their social/political influence is often as or more significant. What Friar Tuck brought to the group was his ability to persuade, and bluff, and so on. Now, in his particular case, he also was pretty good with a staff and a sword, IIRC.
But, in the more general case, what the Western monk/priest/etc. archetype brings to the group is the sorts of abilities that D&D4E is mostly giving to 'leader' classes. That's if you don't mind them being a bit more militant than the actual source materials--which, for D&D4E, is probably appropriate.
Personally, i'd prefer to have someone whose role when the violence starts is *precisely* to cower in the corner--but who has sufficient other strengths to balance this weakness out. I have no interest in the combats (and don't mind mostly sitting out when they occur)--i like playing skillmonkeys, or information-gatherers, or social/influence characters. But i just don't see D&D4E having any classes that aren't combat-centric. Which is a large part of why i don't see myself ever playing it, beyond a couple sessions to get a feel for it and make sure i'm not misjudging.
__________________ woodelf not necessarily on behalf of
The Impossible Dream <http://www.tiltingatwindmills.net>
Martial Power won't have new classes but we'll get the swordmage in Forgotten Realms. How many other new classes do we think we'll get before Player's Handbook II comes out?
Martial Power won't have new classes but we'll get the swordmage in Forgotten Realms. How many other new classes do we think we'll get before Player's Handbook II comes out?
My guess is no other full, finalized classes, just previews in Dragon, like the Artificer and Barbarian.
Hoping that Open Grave will have necromancer as a class. Doubt it, but it would go a long way to making it a "must have" NPC class, NPC emplate, PC class. With good items and monsters as well, it could be very good.
Howevber, I fear that they may not go that way with Open Grave.
Without taking the time to read the entire thread, it seems no one suspects the PHB II of containing Psionic classes anymore. Any reason why?
I had been pegging T as Telepath, the location for all of the Wizard's "enchanter-y" powers.
Am I too far off base?
__________________ “When one awakes, and rolls from his pallet, and strides across the cold rushes to put flame to lantern. When the world is asleep around him. When the whippoorwill sings and crickets speak. When one is alone, in silence, with nothing but a book. That, my son, is glory. That is all the glory a man ever needs, and more besides.” - Sage Poridel Poriden, Sins of Our Fathers
Are you running SoW and are interested in getting some ideas on the overarching plot?
Looking for better ways to tie the disparate modules together?
Come visit my thread on doing exactly that! Also, visit the wiki it inspired! Player's stay out!
Without taking the time to read the entire thread, it seems no one suspects the PHB II of containing Psionic classes anymore. Any reason why?
I had been pegging T as Telepath, the location for all of the Wizard's "enchanter-y" powers.
Am I too far off base?
I'm actually hoping that it doesn't at this point, honestly. And that's coming from someone whose only major 3/3.5 purchases other than the core rulebooks and MotP was the Psionics books. (Although this time around if I'm able I'll probably be getting more, at least Tome of Treasures and all the power sourcebooks as well as MotP.)
There's limited space. We would get the merest hint of psionics with one or two classes.
We already know Barbarian, Druid, Shaman, and probably Bard and Sorcerer. That leaves room for three classes. But the PHB2 is supposed to round out the Divine power source as well, leaving room at most 2 psionic classes.
Further, one extra divine class doesn't really 'round out' the divine classes all that well. By PHB2, then, we'd have four martial classes and five arcane classes (Bard, Sorcerer, Swordmage, Warlock, Wizard). For the first three power sources, divine is falling behind. So it would be nice to see two divine classes in the PHB2. Theurge and Inquisitor sound good.
Leaving space for one class for a psionics class. Honestly, why bother? I'd rather they be introduced in a place where they can get a more complete treatment, even if that means waiting for the PHB3.
This also gets us 4 martial classes (fighter, ranger, rogue, warlord), five arcane classes (bard, wizard, warlock, sorcerer, and swordmage), four divine classes (paladin, cleric, theurge and inquisitor), and four primal classes (druid, barbarian, shaman, and 'W'.) And whatever the Artificer will be, shortly after that.
Which is a much better rounded lineup than having two or three each of divine and primal, and then two of psionic. It helps people that are creating campaigns with strong primal, divine, or arcane elements. It means not having to look up information for primal, divine and arcane characters between yet another PHB by waiting to 'complete' those power sources in PHB3 (already you're looking at the information being spread out between the PHB1, PHB2, campaign setting sourcebooks, and the power source sourcebook.)
It would just be better overall, I think, for all the different power sources if they held off on psionics, including being better for psionics. I'd rather have to reference just the PHB3 and the psionics sourcebook for psionics characters in the future than have to reference PHB2, PHB3, PHB4 and a psionics sourcebook, which is likely if they do it one or two classes at a time. Because in addition to classes, each one of those that features a class of a given power source is likely to also feature feats and additional rules that also apply to that power source in general. So you'd be looking at carrying a whole library around with you.
Other symmetry issues aside, PHB2 - Arcane, Divine and Primal Heroes and then PHB3 - Elemental, Psionic, Shadow heroes makes a lot more sense to me, for some reason, than PHB2 Arcane, Divine, Primal and Psionic Heroes and PHB3 Elemental, Psionic, Shadow, And Whatever Else We Didn't Get To Complete Yet Heroes. You might as well just drop the PHB subtitles at that point on the latter set.
Last edited by Cryptos; 24th June 2008 at 10:04 PM..
Illusionists will have better Invisibility options than a Wizard (source). They may use the Shadow power source (source).
Necromancers are mentioned here. They use the Shadow power source (Worlds & Monsters, and here).
Rich Baker gives his guesstimate of traction for ten races from Aarakocra to Catfolk here.
Goliaths will probably be in 4e Forgotten Realms, possibly with a spot in Faerun earmarked for them so you'll know where they're from when they're released (source).
Half-Giants may be too similar to Goliaths (source).
Rich Baker hopes to have Half-Orcs on DDi pretty soon after the Player's Handbook hits (source; note this is from January). He expects to see at least a couple of returning classes (Barbarian, Druid, Bard, Sorcerer) on DDi by this summer (source); later he guesses we might see Bard or Druid by late summer or early fall (source).
Half-Orcs "imply a very ugly backstory"; they may try to change that (source).
Gnomes, Half-Orcs, and Goliaths will be mentioned in the 4e Realms products, but not dwelled on because the rules for them will be a ways off (source).
Bards, Druids, Barbarians, and Sorcerers will be in print in 2009 (source).
Sorcerers will get flying a little faster than wizards do (source).
"Multiclassing into swordmage is pretty easy for a wizard (and vice versa)" (source). Swordmages like Int and Str (source).
Genasi ability adjustments "don’t really support warlock all that well"; they have elemental manifestations, which are "really righteous racial abilities"; Firesoul and Stormsoul are two of the options (source).
Added news that Amazon has a release date of March 17th listed for Player's Handbook II (source), and there's info from a 5th level Swordmage in an RPGA adventure here.
Goliaths will probably be in 4e Forgotten Realms, possibly with a spot in Faerun earmarked for them so you'll know where they're from when they're released (source).
Half-Giants may be too similar to Goliaths (source).
Oh, good.
Not that I didn't like half-giants, but I *really* like goliaths.
Updated the first post with info from the cover of the PHB2 - that it will contain Arcane, Divine, and Primal heroes, and that it shows a Goliath and what could be a Gnome or a Shifter on the cover.
Also removed this bit, since I can't find any significant meaning in it:
Scott Rouse says "The license is done but late yesterday we added a bunch of new stuff to the SRD to cover some books coming out next year (like PH2 classes, power sources, and weapons)." (source) When someone complains, he asks "So do you want Psionics now or 12 months from now?" (source) However, the released SRD doesn't seem to include anything from future products.
Given the look of the Gnome that was in the one cartoon with the Tiefling, I'm guessing that's a Gnome on the cover. They look very similar, especially in the shape of the head.
Personally, i'd prefer to have someone whose role when the violence starts is *precisely* to cower in the corner--but who has sufficient other strengths to balance this weakness out.
This is never going to happen. 4e is specifically aiming to destroy the combat sucks/skillmonkey god dichotomy, and its counterpart. You don't get to dominate one arena by ignoring the other.
Quote:
I have no interest in the combats (and don't mind mostly sitting out when they occur)--i like playing skillmonkeys, or information-gatherers, or social/influence characters. But i just don't see D&D4E having any classes that aren't combat-centric.
The designers want everyone to be able to participate at all times. Now, if you personally want to sit out the combat, good on ya. But don't expect to get more than a pat on the head for it.
__________________ Not all bean-counting is of equal importance. ~Mallus
Sometimes I think people view gaming as practice for law school than as an enjoyable leisure activity. ~Professor Phobos
Some people enjoy building sandcastles. Others enjoy kicking them over. ~Wormwood
So Rich Baker seems to confirm bards, druids, gnomes, and barbarians for the PHB2 here.
So I've changed around the first post - I removed these three bits:
Quote:
Bards, Druids, Barbarians, and Sorcerers will be in print in 2009 (source).
Quote:
The PHB2 will include the Sorcerer (source), the Barbarian and Druid (Races & Classes), as well as classes "not unlike the Druid, Barbarian, and Bard" (source).
Quote:
"By the time the Eberron Campaign Guide comes out next year, gnomes will be a fully-supported race." (source)
and replaced them with a mention that Gnomes were confirmed and this:
Quote:
Barbarians, Bards, Druids, and Sorcerers are all confirmed for the PHB2 (source, source).
Also replaced this:
Quote:
Gnomes, Half-Orcs, and Goliaths will be mentioned in the 4e Realms products, but not dwelled on because the rules for them will be a ways off (source).
with this:
Quote:
Barbarians, Bards, Druids, and Gnomes will be mentioned in Forgotten Realms products (source), as will Half-Orcs and Goliaths (source).
Also added this:
Quote:
Wizards has no plans to reprint races and classes in the Forgotten Realm's Player's Guide in the PHB2 (source).
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