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Oh certainly, and I agree (as I intended to relate in my first paragraph or two), I just wonder what the future holds, and there didn't seem to be a better thread in which to ponder.
__________________ If my post comes off as unnecessarily snarky, it's because I have a disability.
Oh certainly, and I agree (as I intended to relate in my first paragraph or two), I just wonder what the future holds, and there didn't seem to be a better thread in which to ponder.
There have been debates about the nature of the web and that fact that caching means that a copy is, in fact, being made. That, however, is (or at least should be) fairly easily handwaved away when you realize that posting on the web implies the right to copy the work as part of browser caching.
But ultimately since any work of art/intellect has always been copyable in some way (though often in fairly difficult, non-cost effective ways), the ease of copying something has nothing actually to do with the right to do so and then redistribute.
But excerpt away if you're debating a particular point. US copyright law recognizes fair use. So, use fairly.
__________________ Bill D
"There's a fine line between a superpower and a chronic medical condition."
- Doctor Impossible
It's not so much the ease of reproduction I'm curious about as what constitutes the introduction of thoughts into the public domain. Certainly, if these articles were printed on pamphlets and handed out by folks at your local grocery store free of charge, there wouldn't be the same debate, except insofar as claiming said work for you own(bad!), or using it to make money against the wishes of the distributing entity(worse!).
I suppose what it boils down to, in my mind, is what constitutes advertising and what constitutes product (when both are offered freely and take similar form), and where do you draw the line between the two?
__________________ If my post comes off as unnecessarily snarky, it's because I have a disability.
And, lets be clear, anything that takes pressure off the enworld servers is a good thing.
Honestly, having the Latest 4E Update: box point directly at the Wizards.com link would probably be the best thing.
Discussion threads and news threads running in tandem and talking about the same thing is not efficient.
(not that our goal is efficiency...)
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...disquieting...
There was no end to his patience and endurance. He played day and night, his obsession was somewhat disquieting. It was less as if he were playing to dispel gloom or beguile tedium than as if he were giving himself up to the fangs of gaming devils."
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Last edited by Graf; 15th May 2008 at 08:08 AM..
Reason: my dignity (or what passes for it)
I suppose what it boils down to, in my mind, is what constitutes advertising and what constitutes product (when both are offered freely and take similar form), and where do you draw the line between the two?
Eh? You can't freely distribute other peoples' adverts, either. Intellectual property is intellectual poperty, wheever the owner chooses to use it for; that's what makes them the "owner" - the power to choose what to do with it.
Eh? You can't freely distribute other peoples' adverts, either. Intellectual property is intellectual poperty, wheever the owner chooses to use it for; that's what makes them the "owner" - the power to choose what to do with it.
Well, to be fair, what company wouldn't WANT there advertisements to be freely distributed? Greater market saturation is always a good thing when you're trying to get the word out about your products and services.
Still, that's obviously (barely) tangential to the discussion at hand, and your point is well taken.
Alrighty, then. Moving on.
__________________ If my post comes off as unnecessarily snarky, it's because I have a disability.
This is due to the fact that those articles are supposed to be a perk for only those with DDI accounts, as oppsed to ENWorld staffers being horrible human beings, correct?
Nope the excerpts are not actually part of D&D Insider.
Excerpts are under the Products menu on the left and features in the middle, only stuff under the Dragon and Dungeon tabs needs a DnD Insider account*.
*actually even that isn't true you just add "&authentic=true" onto the end of a link and it logs you in anyway.
It's not so much the ease of reproduction I'm curious about as what constitutes the introduction of thoughts into the public domain. Certainly, if these articles were printed on pamphlets and handed out by folks at your local grocery store free of charge, there wouldn't be the same debate, except insofar as claiming said work for you own(bad!), or using it to make money against the wishes of the distributing entity(worse!).
I suppose what it boils down to, in my mind, is what constitutes advertising and what constitutes product (when both are offered freely and take similar form), and where do you draw the line between the two?
A work is entered into the public domain under three circumstances:
The copyright holder specifically releases it into the public domain. (This basically doesn't happen. Nowadays, folks who want their works to be shared or modified by others tend to use things like open licenses instead.)
The work belongs to some specific category that makes it automatically part of the public domain under copyright law (Most otherwise copyrightable works created by the US federal government are part of the public domain under US law.)
The copyright expires (under current law, the 4e preview articles will expire in 2128).
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Well, to be fair, what company wouldn't WANT there advertisements to be freely distributed? Greater market saturation is always a good thing when you're trying to get the word out about your products and services.
Still, that's obviously (barely) tangential to the discussion at hand, and your point is well taken.
Alrighty, then. Moving on.
But it's not for you to decide, unless you own it. Your guess to the motive of the owner might be right, wrong, or indifferent, but it's still not your choice. Doing something with someone else's property..real or intellectual...is one of the fundamental challenges to ownership under law, and the whole reason you see the little blurb sometimes about something "being used should not be construed as a challenge to ownership" or somesuch.
And while I feel D&D is far from this point, greater market saturation might be good, but greater advertising saturation isn't always. Anyone else here tired of hearing Willie Mays yelling at you about buying OxyClean, or some silly mop-broom-thing?
I'm having trouble with the links. Could someone please post the entire articles on fair use here.
*Guffaw*
__________________ "The last time I ran into myself, I kicked my own ass." Chasing the DM, a blog for DM's like me who really feel they should know what they're doing by now.
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While i am not necessarily condoning it, it is interesting to note that under "Fair use" it is arguably permissible for a number of separate individuals to each quote a section of a work (and perhaps comment on it) until the entire work has been quoted. Obviously this isn't very conducive to reading the article, but it is an interesting point about "fair use".
"...when thousands of people each exercise fair use, and the accumulation of these folks results in the entire 80 hours being redistributed..."
and
"...people could exercise fair use in this way, but reconstructing the season from all these clips would be impractical..."
Both quote from an article by John C Dvorak at PC Magazine.
If WotC is using traffic to the preview postings as an indication of 4e interest, then reposting the entire article could mess up their metrics.
__________________ "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." - Albert Einstein
WoTC uses the excerpts as a means of drawing traffic to their website. Once you are on their website, then they can show you advertisements for their various products. Copying the article to another website removes that ability.
This is not just a theoretical copyright issue. WoTC has the right to keep track of the number of people viewing the articles and to control what advertisements are shown while people are viewing the articles. If people are coming to Enworld and reading the articles, then they are looking at Enworld's advertisements instead of WoTC's advertisements. Enworld makes money from those advertisements. Providing links on Enworld instead of the entire article allows both Enworld and WoTC to fulfill their objectives.
Of course that sucks for people like me behind a firewall, but the blame for that lies on the firewall.
If WotC is using traffic to the preview postings as an indication of 4e interest, then reposting the entire article could mess up their metrics.
And I care why? I will follow moderator rules certainly, but just as WotC wants whats in their best interests so do I, and my best interest is not having to bounce between two sites. Again I will follow the rules the moderators have decided on even if I don't always like them.
__________________ Brain: Come Pinky! We must prepare for tomorrow night.
Pinky: Why? What are we going to do tomorrow night?
Brain: The same thing we do every night....TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
And I care why? I will follow moderator rules certainly, but just as WotC wants whats in their best interests so do I, and my best interest is not having to bounce between two sites. Again I will follow the rules the moderators have decided on even if I don't always like them.
On the contrary, it's probably in all of our best interests to keep traffic to the WotC healthy so that they start investing the right kind of cash into their web presence.
__________________ "The last time I ran into myself, I kicked my own ass." Chasing the DM, a blog for DM's like me who really feel they should know what they're doing by now.
For DM's: 4E Dungeon Index (adventures, conversions, and sidetreks by level, last updated 16th Oct. through Dungeon #171).
On the contrary, it's probably in all of our best interests to keep traffic to the WotC healthy so that they start investing the right kind of cash into their web presence.
We can all dream, but I have seen no indication of that happening. Sure they talk a good talk about didgital offerings, but in 8 years I have seen no indication of followthrough. As they say, fool me once.
Maybe if we all stopped going there they might get the hint that there is something wrong and actually try to fix it.
__________________ Brain: Come Pinky! We must prepare for tomorrow night.
Pinky: Why? What are we going to do tomorrow night?
Brain: The same thing we do every night....TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
Well, to be fair, what company wouldn't WANT there advertisements to be freely distributed? Greater market saturation is always a good thing when you're trying to get the word out about your products and services.
There are definitely venues where a company might feel that placing its advertisement is in poor taste or is otherwise damaging to the brand.
I wouldn't want any advertisements of mine being distributed at an event that I found morally reprehensible. I wouldn't want my works used to lend credibility to a rival product either. To use a farcical, but instructive, example: what kind of reputation would it give your business if someone kept putting up fliers about your lawn fertilizer at random people's funerals as opposed to a home and garden show?
Indiscriminate market saturation can actually turn your advertisements against your brand.
We can all dream, but I have seen no indication of that happening. Sure they talk a good talk about didgital offerings, but in 8 years I have seen no indication of followthrough. As they say, fool me once.
Maybe if we all stopped going there they might get the hint that there is something wrong and actually try to fix it.
Out of curiosity, what's wrong with their site. Note, I'm not talking about Gleemax, that's a different issue. But, the D&D site is pretty easy to navigate and read. I've never had a problem with that site. What are these huge issues you are worried about?
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The copyright holder specifically releases it into the public domain. (This basically doesn't happen. Nowadays, folks who want their works to be shared or modified by others tend to use things like open licenses instead.)
The work belongs to some specific category that makes it automatically part of the public domain under copyright law (Most otherwise copyrightable works created by the US federal government are part of the public domain under US law.)
The copyright expires (under current law, the 4e preview articles will expire in 2128).
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