D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
You can take powers / skills / feats / et cetera out of the order their presented. EDIT: at 1st level.
Con does something extra for everyone (HP, Surges). In fact con seems to be is the only score everyone gets a benefit from for free...
(no mention in the 2nd chapter so far of Str affecting encumbrance, for instance. Or Dex and initiative for that matter, but we know that from previews).
16 14 13 12 11 10 is the new 15 14 13 12 10 8.
Same default dice roll as 3E (4d6 six times drop the lowest, arrange as desired). But nice shiny new hopeless reroll ... I can't even call it a rule. It simply mentioned that if your total bonuses are below +4 or above +8 before racial adjustments the DM may wish you to reroll. (there's been no mention of rule 0 in general, but I'm skimming).
I like the way they present info on deities. Each has 3-4 'commands' or 'laws' or somesuch. Actually putting some dogma into religion rocks, it's the sort of thing I've always spent a lot of time working on when playting / DMing religious types.
Random deity - Raven Queen, since I've heard some clamor about her. Seems rather cool. Death is a natural end, she's unaligned and has a Three Sisters of Fate sort of vibe from Norse / Greek myth. Her commandments are: Hold no pity for those who die; it is a natural end. Bring down those who attempt to cast off the chain of fate (PCs who treat the afterlife as a revolving door; I'm looking at you...). Put down the creations / cults of Orcus.
Language is mentioned, no mention of Int adding to starting languages (maybe the feat...). 2-3 depending on race.
Each type of check is outlines. Attack, Skill and Ability. All add 1/2 your level. Aside from two page references to where you'll find 'All Other Modifiers' these three are the exact same (I'm guessing Initiative is just a Dex ability check, or were we seeing +5s?).
Step by step level up rules... though the steps are numbered it never says 'in order' specifically. Sigh. There's a debate we haven't had enough of. This could be a problem if feats require powers or if paragon / epic require feats (I haven't looked over the level breakdown to see where these could collide). Of course that could be alleviated because next, we have:
Retraining (1/2 a page). Any single feat, skill, power. Any one of the three each level, of course stating that you can't do anything too fancy to dodging prerequisites (haven't read this for loopholes, looks good at a glance).
18 feats at 30th. Nothing else scales that high, though the utility powers entirely 'stack' (never replace old ones): you end up with 7. At will 2, encounter / daily 4 each at 30th (this is the base progression, there could be more of any of these from class). You can entirely retrain all your heroic tier to paragon and paragon tier to epic feats, as long as you only do 1 level at a time and don't break prerequisites. It'll be interesting to see how this is balanced, and looks like the single most fiddly bit so far (including parts I've only heard of and haven't read)...
On to races...
__________________ "I took a risk... and I ended up in the bag of holding" -the player of Ian Whitefire (deceased)
Last edited by Destil; 28th May 2008 at 08:38 AM..
These have been spoiled to death by now. I'm just hitting the high points (by which I mean things that are new to me).
Eladrin get a bonus trained skill (from their superior education). +1 to will saves and +5 vs charm. Considered a fey.
I'm in the 'WTF, again!?!?' camp on half-elves... A floating +2 and +2 Cha was all I think it would take to make them awesome, +2 Con... well at least everyone can use it.
Tiefling also looks underpowered, though they at least feel right.
__________________ "I took a risk... and I ended up in the bag of holding" -the player of Ian Whitefire (deceased)
I am somewhat bothered by some classes and builds seeming to get noticeably better synergy and base-coverage with their abilities (demon pact Warlock vs. main-defender Paladin). However, Wizards swears by their playtesting, and I haven't touched 4E yet personally, so I'll see.
Inspired Recovery [Warlord, Inspiring Presence class feature]: Grant ally saving throw with Cha modifier bonus Mounted Combat [none]: Gain access to the special abilities of your mount Nimble Blade [Dex 15]: +1 to attacks with light blade and combat advantage Precise Hunter [Wis 15, ranger, Hunter’s Quarry class feature]: Allies gain +1 attack against target hit by critical hit Press the Advantage [Cha 15, rogue]: Retain combat advantage with a critical hit Quick Draw [Dex 13]: Draw a weapon with attack action, +2 to initiative Shield Push [Fighter, Combat Challenge class feature]: Push 1 square to target hit by Combat Challenge attack Tactical Assault [Warlord, Tactical Presence class feature]: Ally gains bonus to damage equal to your Int modifier
and all the Channel Divinity feat powers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underage AOLer
Toughness [none]: Gain 5 additional hit points per tier
<Sigh> And it sucks again. The preview version (3 + 1/level) was pretty solid, but not a must-have. 5/tier--1 per 2 levels--is crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underage AOLer
Skill Focus [Training in chosen skill]: +3 to checks with chosen skill
They lied to me... at DDXP, they said this no longer existed. Well, it makes some of those DCs we've seen more attainable.
__________________ GM of the COre COliseum, a competitive D&D arena. An excellent place to master your optimization skills and rules knowledge.
Cleric: Wisdom, Strength, Charisma
Fighter: Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom, Constitution (all fighters need strength, but the others can depend on weapons)
Paladin: Strength, Charisma, Wisdom
Ranger: Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom
Rogue: Dexterity, Strength, Charisma
Warlock: Charisma, Constitution, Intelligence
Warlord: Strength, Intelligence, Charisma
Wizard: Intelligence, Wisdom, Dexterity
To follow up on this:
1) Can you give us an example of what Dex does for a wizard, what Int does for a Warlock, and what Cha does for a cleric? I think we have a good idea about the rest of them.
2) For a paladin, Str is primary and Cha secondary? That seems odd--most of the paladin stuff we've seen has been Cha primary. I was looking forward to playing a low-Str paladin, which looked possible (if limiting) so far--can you confirm whether this is at all viable?
__________________ GM of the COre COliseum, a competitive D&D arena. An excellent place to master your optimization skills and rules knowledge.
I'm a bit let down that there's reused art in the MM. You'd think that in a production of this magnitude, Wizards could afford ten more illustrations or so......
__________________ Formerly known as Sorcica - but my ego was too big for one name only.
All of the above is of course in my opinion only. But do consider that I'm often right.
Some of those are pretty much what you get. Like Tactical assault, you really just add your int to the damage to an ally's attack when they use an Action Point.
But I'll specify with a few.
Quickdraw lets you draw an item or a weapon in the same motion that you would use that item. So let's say you've got a dagger in your belt, but you're unarmed. You can draw it and attack with a single standard action. You also get a +2 to Initiative.
Mounted Combat grants certain traits that mounts grant their riders. For instance, the Dire Wolf has an ability that grants its rider combat advantage if another ally (other than the mount) is adjacent to the foe.
A warhorse horse gives you a +5 damage on charge attacks.
I'm a bit let down that there's reused art in the MM. You'd think that in a production of this magnitude, Wizards could afford ten more illustrations or so......
I'd say there's maybe 5 pictures that have been reused, at least of what I've seen.
Can anyone give us the run down on alignments? Is CG just rolled into Good now? Any penalty/bonus for changing alignment mid-campaign?
Any class restrictions? Alignment based? Race based? Minimum ability score?
If I wanted to make an archer type character, could the Fighter fill this role, or am I stuck with Ranger? ie, can you make a feasible archery based Fighter?
__________________ It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it -Upton Sinclair
Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand. -Albert Einstein
Alignment is what you are when no one is watching. -Yakoska, fellow D&D player.
The new spiritual weapon rocks. Level 5 daily, d10+wis damage with sustain minor (Wis attack vs. AC each round) and you can move it 10 squares as a move...
But the real benefit: Remember how spiritual weapon didn't grant flanking bonuses? Hell with that, now it grants combat advantage for all allies attacking the target.
__________________ "I took a risk... and I ended up in the bag of holding" -the player of Ian Whitefire (deceased)
1) Can you give us an example of what Dex does for a wizard
The only real EXAMPLE that I can find is that with Wand accuracy, it gives you a dex bonus to attack.
I mentioned earlier that Charisma is just a slight rider on some effects for a Cleric.
Quote:
2) For a paladin, Str is primary and Cha secondary? ?
No no no.
There are two builds. A STR based Pally, or a CHA based Pally. THe former is very offensive, the latter is offensive/defensive mixed. Wisdom is the secondary stat that really helps a paladin of either build; a low Wis Strenght paladin is going to be hurtin' with his abilities, because Wisdom effects a lot of his powers' secondary effects. Lay on Hands is keyed off your wisdom, for instance.
I'll give you an example. Righteous smite. It's Charisma vs. AC, 2(W)+Charisma, and you and any ally within 5 squares of you gain temp hp of 5 + Your Wisdom.
Last edited by Rechan; 28th May 2008 at 09:26 AM..
f I wanted to make an archer type character, could the Fighter fill this role, or am I stuck with Ranger? ie, can you make a feasible archery based Fighter?
Looking through the first five levels of Fighter, I don't see any real powers that you can use with ranged weapons.
Some of those are pretty much what you get. Like Tactical assault, you really just add your int to the damage to an ally's attack when they use an Action Point.
The words "Action Point" being missing from the short description were pretty key.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rechan
For instance, the Dire Wolf has an ability that grants its rider combat advantage if another ally (other than the mount) is adjacent to the foe.
So we'll have rogues riding dire wolves. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rechan
There are two builds. A STR based Pally, or a CHA based Pally. THe former is very offensive, the latter is offensive/defensive mixed. Wisdom is the secondary stat that really helps a paladin of either build; a low Wis Strenght paladin is going to be hurtin' with his abilities, because Wisdom effects a lot of his powers' secondary effects. Lay on Hands is keyed off your wisdom, for instance.
Ah, so it's more like the ranger and warlock: pick one of two primary stats, or maybe but not necessarily both. Thanks a lot.
__________________ GM of the COre COliseum, a competitive D&D arena. An excellent place to master your optimization skills and rules knowledge.
So we'll have rogues riding dire wolves. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
You and an adjacent ally gaining combat advantage is one of the abilities that wolves (and hyenas, and a select few monsters) have. A dire wolf giving that same ability to its rider would suggest that the rider is operating on the same "Harrying Pack" tactic.
Besides, I don't know if a rogue would be able to do all his shifty tricks if he's mounted on a dire wolf. He's also got to be able to lug the beast around, tend to it, spend the feat, the dire wolf will likely die against more fierce foes (It's just a level 5 skirmisher), etc.
Ah, so it's more like the ranger and warlock: pick one of two primary stats, or maybe but not necessarily both. Thanks a lot.
Warlord is the same. You have Int-based powers and Cha-based powers.
Cleric is also the same. Str or Wisdom based.
Rogue is Str or Cha (with dex tossed in there too).
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