Torrent throwdown on the Wizards board

[warlockwannabe]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1037302

Quite an argument, what do you guys think?

[Moniker]

I would assume that WotC likely put digital watermarks into certain pages (functioning as a way to track what was printed where). Digital watermarks are imperceptable to the eye and can be hidden in images or even the background of a page.

That will lead to the culprit.

[warlockwannabe]

Originally Posted by Moniker

I would assume that WotC likely put digital watermarks into certain pages (functioning as a way to track what was printed where). Digital watermarks are imperceptable to the eye and can be hidden in images or even the background of a page.

That will lead to the culprit.

I would hope so.

And also, because of your avatar I have to say.
COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBRA!

[Xsjado]

I think that anyone who would cancel an order because they've found a digital copy is shooting themselves in the foot. I (and a lot of people) find reading huge blocks of text on a computer screen difficult and what happens when you actually need to play? Are you going to print out the entire document because that costs you more in paper and ink than just buying it would. Not to mention, a legit book is going to be a lot higher quality than something coming off your home inkjet printer.

EDIT: Digital watermarks mean nothing in this case. These aren't scans they are OEF files so even if they contain watermarking data it won't lead to anything more narrow than a company or department. In that case you may never find the person who is actually responsible because there'll be a large number of people with access.

[Blacksmithking]

I think people are tilting at a windmill. I don't think PDF versions of the books will hurt WotC's sales.

[FickleGM]

Originally Posted by Blacksmithking

I think people are tilting at a windmill. I don't think PDF versions of the books will hurt WotC's sales.

Personally, I don't care about the sales. I'm tilting at thieves.

[jc_madden]

Originally Posted by Xsjado

I think that anyone who would cancel an order because they've found a digital copy is shooting themselves in the foot.

Totally agree, nothing cooler than OWNing something and being able to see it on your book shelf. Also very cool to support the industry, for without our $$ they would go away and I would be a sad panda.

Originally Posted by Xsjado

I (and a lot of people) find reading huge blocks of text on a computer screen difficult and what happens when you actually need to play?

I disagree with you there, however. My friends and I (who have purchased quite literally a ton of books, mind you) find using sites like d20srd.org invaluable during play. Keeping books off the table adds to the immersion in the game. We still have to take out splat books for info that's not on that site, but we put them away when we are done with them.

Originally Posted by Xsjado

Not to mention, a legit book is going to be a lot higher quality than something coming off your home inkjet printer.

Not if KotS's printing quality is any indication of what to expect. It was utter crap.

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think anyone who would cancel an order because of a digital copy and then say so on WotC's board is helping to ensure that WotC won't ever put out legal PDFs again.

[Xsjado]

Originally Posted by Whizbang Dustyboots

I think anyone who would cancel an order because of a digital copy and then say so on WotC's board is helping to ensure that WotC won't ever put out legal PDFs again.

Did they ever put out legal pdfs in the first place?

[Raduin711]

Originally Posted by jc_madden

Not if KotS's printing quality is any indication of what to expect. It was utter crap.

A little hyperbolic...

[Celebrim]

pdfs suck as game books. At best, you can preview a book with an illege pdf before ordering it online, but pdfs suck as game books and I can't imagine using one.

Even if you steal a book by getting an illegal pdf, you are in practice still going to have to pay for making an inferior print out of the pdf and binding it in something before its really going to be useful for thumbing through, serious reading, or anything else.

For that matter, this is the reason I don't buy legal pdf's. Some of the material out there looks really great, but as a media for a rule book, digital copies just suck.

If you are planning on playing 4e, I can't imagine why you wouldn't want the rule books. I can't imagine from any perspective, ethical, practical, or anything else why you'd be happy with a stolen copy.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally Posted by warlockwannabe

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1037302

Quite an argument, what do you guys think?

That nothing good will come from this.

The topic has been thrashed out pretty well here (as evinced by the number of closed threads on the topic).

[jc_madden]

Originally Posted by Raduin711

A little hyperbolic...

Is it? Did you pay $30 for one and have your finger prints come off the front cover and then unbeknownst to you smudge most of the book as you parused it? Did you find the paper to be abnormally thin? Did you find that the book didn't stay open and "feel" like a book? Were your saddened by the lack of a descent cover rather than a simple paper one, identical in grade and quality to the rest of the book? Did you feel like this was less of a collectible, something that would last for a long time in your library, or more like a throwaway wad of tissue? I sure did.

Not hyberbolic at all, really.

[Harr]

Honestly, I dont think anyone who would cancel an order because they found a pdf online would have even placed an order in the first place, since there was never any doubt that pdf copies would be easily available almost immediately after the print books came out.

That said, I find discussions on piracy are ultimately fruitless, as evidenced by that thread. Lots of thought flying around everywhere and for what? People will do what they will do.

[warlockwannabe]

Originally Posted by Nyarlathotep

That nothing good will come from this.

The topic has been thrashed out pretty well here (as evinced by the number of closed threads on the topic).

If i have woken the dragon, pun intended, I do apologize.

[Byronic]

Good Lord, one person believes that people should be severely beaten for downloading the PDF and another one says that no one should be physically harmed but they should serve jail time.

Personally if I did something and they gave me a choice I'd choose the beating. That'll be over in five min, jail time is significantly longer then that and they give out more beatings.

[Harr]

Now that you mention it, I wouldn't begrudge anyone who after buying KotS decided to download it, print it and bind it for themselves. I'd sure like to But the core books won't be like that. I hope.

[Xsjado]

Originally Posted by jc_madden

Is it? Did you pay $30 for one and have your finger prints come off the front cover and then unbeknownst to you smudge mose of the book as you parused it? Did you find the paper to be abnormally thin? Did you find that the book didn't stay open and "feel" like a book? Were your saddened by the lack of a descent cover rather than a simple paper one, identical in grade and quality to the rest of the book? Did you feel like this was less of a collectible, something that would last for a long time in your library, or more like a throwaway wad of tissue? I sure did.

Not hyberbolic at all, really.

That paragraph reads like a definition of hyperbole.

I wasn't that disappointed by it myself. I think it was overpriced but the quality of the printing is pretty much what I expected for that type of module. I'm going to re-iterate that it was a clear case of price gouging so you don't jump down my throat again.

Regardless of the print quality it is still going to be better than what you would get by printing at home which was the original comparison. Changing the goal posts just turns your point into a straw man.

As we've seen from the leaked copies, they are full colour and that requires a higher quality print process and paper than we saw in the preview module.

[Novem5er]

I'm not worried about some people getting free .pdf files, as I suspect that most fans will still buy the books.

The old paradigm of the RPG business was that people would share books. They knew that people would access their information without having themselves paid for that information. They knew that X number of books sold would mean X + Y number of players would have that information. This was always okay as long as X books were sold.

It's the same today. WotC is not selling information. Information cannot be controlled. In fact, they made great strides to open that information to other companies to sell for profit . . . with the assumption that if Y people have the information, they will now sell X books. The 4e GSL is even more blatant about this.

People will buy the books, even if they have the PDFs. The physical ownership of products is ingrained in our psyche, which could be argued is a manufactured desire. Regardless, we LIKE having STUFF.

Not everybody will buy the books, but again, not every player in the 70's bought their own copy of D&D. The game is meant to be shared. If the current method of sharing cuts down on the number of books sold, then the company must find other ways to increase revenue, or provide extra incentive to buying the books:

DDI. Rules Database. Game Table. Virtual Minis. Micro-transactions. Doesn't everyone see that this is where the business is going? Yes, they want to sell books, but the books are a catalyst to other revenue streams. For every dollar that this "information age" is costing WotC in "piracy", they will attempt to make back two-fold through other Internet offers that cannot so easily be shared.

I look forward to playing, and owning the physical books I've purchased, but don't tell me that it's wrong to get information (knowledge) that wasn't paid for. That is a dangerous idea and always has been.

[FickleGM]

It's wrong.