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Old 1st June 2008, 10:16 AM   #1 (permalink)
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jasin Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Archery vs. TWF

I haven't looked through all the ranger powers, so I might be wrong, but it seems like TWF is at a distinct disadvantage compared to archery.

There are a lot of powers which require either a ranged weapon or two melee weapons and allow two attacks. This means that a TWF ranger will have to spend double the money on magic weapons to have the same attack and damage bonuses as the archery ranger. And that's on top of the obvious common sense benefit of archery, which is that you're not standing within the reach of the ettin's club.

Are TWF-only powers good enough to compensate for this?
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Old 1st June 2008, 10:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
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From what people have been saying, you don't actually get extra attacks from a second weapon. You just get a damage bonus. So, technically, you could have one super-magicked-up weapon and a rusty dagger, and you would reap all the benefits of TWF.

But I could be wrong.
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Old 1st June 2008, 10:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hong
From what people have been saying, you don't actually get extra attacks from a second weapon. You just get a damage bonus. So, technically, you could have one super-magicked-up weapon and a rusty dagger, and you would reap all the benefits of TWF.

But I could be wrong.
You are.

NORMALLY you gain nothing from having 2 weapons, only the option to use either of them. If you purchase 2 Weapon Fighting as a feat, you get bonus damage when holding 2 weapons.

Rangers have the ability to weild one handed weapons as if they were off-handed weapons and nothing else, but they also have a LOT of powers which say "If dual wielding, make an attack with each weapon, if using a bow shoot twice".
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Old 1st June 2008, 10:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jasin
Are TWF-only powers good enough to compensate for this?
Two words: Blade Cascade
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Old 1st June 2008, 10:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten
You are.

NORMALLY you gain nothing from having 2 weapons, only the option to use either of them. If you purchase 2 Weapon Fighting as a feat, you get bonus damage when holding 2 weapons.

Rangers have the ability to weild one handed weapons as if they were off-handed weapons and nothing else, but they also have a LOT of powers which say "If dual wielding, make an attack with each weapon, if using a bow shoot twice".
Man, everybody's a critic.
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Old 1st June 2008, 10:36 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Sitara Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Hmm, don't you add your STR to damage when using melee weapons anymore? If so, that would be a benefit over archery, as its always been in 3e.
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Old 1st June 2008, 10:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Darth Cyric Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
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Originally Posted by Sitara
Hmm, don't you add your STR to damage when using melee weapons anymore? If so, that would be a benefit over archery, as its always been in 3e.
Yes, you add your STR to melee damage. It's actually archery that got bumped up, as you get to add DEX to archery damage, something you didn't do in the past.
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Old 1st June 2008, 10:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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You add your dex to damage when using a bow, so that makes up for strength on melee. I guess 2 magic weapons means more magic weapon powers which can be nice, though there is a limit to how many daily item powers you can use in a day.

Other then that, melee definitely should be stronger then ranged, but I haven't studied it enough to have an opinion yet.
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Old 1st June 2008, 10:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
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What I want to know is how individual the two streams are?

For example if I go the bow-fu route do I have virtually zero ability with the TWF?

Or, are a lot of the powers applicable to both? I'm probably going to go the Bow-fu route out of interest.
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Old 1st June 2008, 10:51 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It's a conspiracy against you Hong
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Old 1st June 2008, 10:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
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What I want to know is how individual the two streams are?
I would say you're not supposed to cross the streams.

But I could be wrong.
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Old 1st June 2008, 10:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hong
I would say you're not supposed to cross the streams.

But I could be wrong.
You may be right, Kobolds and Goblins living together and all that.
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Old 1st June 2008, 11:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hong
I would say you're not supposed to cross the streams.

But I could be wrong.
If someone asks you if you are an archer, you say "Yes!".

You can actually cross the streams, since many powers got the same text for both TWF and archery, like, "if you hit, you deal 2[w]. Str vs AC for TWF, Dex vs AC for archery" (made that one up).

There are TWF-only and Archery-only attacks, but you can use both, actually. However, picking one or another fighting style at level 1 gives you nice advantadges. If you pick TWF, you can dual wield bastard swords, in example, since you can treat one-handed weapons as off-hand weapons.
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Old 1st June 2008, 11:59 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Ian O'Rourke Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Hah, so it sounds like I can go the bow route, use the bow a lot - but still get in close and have a lot of advantages, albeit I'll need to default to using a proper off-hand weapon.

Seems fine to me.

So, what does choosing a fighting-style actually constitute? Is it something you pick as a class feature? Or a feat choice that takes a slot?
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Old 1st June 2008, 12:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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