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No you use the orb when the spell is cast, only it lasts an round longer..
Quote:
Alternatively, you can choose to extend the duration
of an effect created by a wizard at-will spell (such as
cloud of daggers or ray of frost) that would otherwise end
at the end of your current turn. The effect instead ends
at the end of your next turn.
If you're using it on Ray of Frost or Cloud of Daggers, you have to wait until your next turn, because that's when the spell will "end at the end of your current turn."
I'll have to keep that in mind. I did it wrong last session, and it could save me an orb use in the future.
And why shouldnt someone that is smaller be able to carry as much as an normal person?
Since when has a 10 year old been able to carry the same amount as an adult? You can't divorce physical mass from the equation. That should go without saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oompa
And as i can remember, it is stated in the phb what the carrying load is for an horse..
That was my point. A normal load for a warhorse (going by their Carrying Capacity on page 222 of the PH) is 262 pounds.
The average weight of a dragonborn (going by their racial entry on page 34 of the PH) is 270 pounds.
A warhorse is therefore always "slowed" (reduced to Speed 2) when mounted by a dragonborn of average weight ... and that's not even counting their equipment. I'm willing to bet that Wizards simply didn't put those two together before the PH was sent off to the printers.
Size matters. This problem is easily solved with an errata that adjusts the multipliers for normal loads, heavy loads, and maximum drag loads by creature size.
Last edited by Angrygodofmilk; 25th June 2008 at 03:07 AM..
Per a recent thread, someone had trouble interpreting the level 2 Wizard Utility Jump.
It's missing language that makes it clear how it is used in combat.
The Move Action appears to be so that the Wizard can use the spell as part of his action to jump. But he can also use it on another creature. It does not say whether this would be done on the creature's next athletics check, his next move action, or whether he gets a free jumping motion as soon as the wizard casts it on the wizard's turn.
It's not clear at all.
My belief is that it does not grant a free jumping move on the Wizard's turn if used on another creature in combat. That's a bit much for a level 2 utility, as it would give both an enhancement and a free move. Most level 2 utilities of that nature give one or the other - an enhancement bonus or an extra shift-like move, not both.
Since when has a 10 year old been able to carry the same amount as an adult? You can't divorce physical mass from the equation. That should go without saying.
That was my point. A normal load for a warhorse (going by their Carrying Capacity on page 222 of the PH) is 262 pounds.
The average weight of a dragonborn (going by their racial entry on page 34 of the PH) is 270 pounds.
A warhorse is therefore always "slowed" (reduced to Speed 2) when mounted by a dragonborn of average weight ... and that's not even counting their equipment. I'm willing to bet that Wizards simply didn't put those two together before the PH was sent off to the printers.
Size matters. This problem is easily solved with an errata that adjusts the multipliers for normal loads, heavy loads, and maximum drag loads by creature size.
Actually, it really means that a Dragonborn needs something stronger than a horse.
A RL horse should carry no more than 20% of its bodyweight, or so. A charger or horse with similiar bone-density can hold a bit more, but not a lot. Clydesdale and similiar draught-horse breeds made good warhorse base stock, due to size/density and stamina.
You'll be damnably lucky to find a horse that can carry a 270lb weight for long, and once you add tack and gear, you're going to be breaking that horse.
Sooo.. Dragonborn needs bigger/different mounts. Its not a problem with the Mounts carrying capacity.
Dragonborn are also freaking huge, the average weight being 120kgs.
A RL horse should carry no more than 20% of its bodyweight, or so. A charger or horse with similiar bone-density can hold a bit more, but not a lot. Clydesdale and similiar draught-horse breeds made good warhorse base stock, due to size/density and stamina.
Without different Carrying Capacity multipliers for larger than Medium and smaller than Medium creatures, the encumbrance inconsistently gets progressively worse. For example, using the rules as printed, small kobolds and huge titans with the same Strength can supposedly carry the same amount of weight. Something tells me that kobolds can't quite hurl 2d8 damage rocks 20 squares in the same way that earth titans can, no matter how much a Strength a kobold gains...
Can we please relegate the discussion of the encumbrance rules to another thread? It is clearly not just a printing error, and if it needs changing it is a rule change and not appropriate for this thread.
I've updated the first post, except for Cryptos' addition, which I'll get to after class.
As for those that dislike the encumbrance rules: I'll echo Henrix in saying that it seems like a discussion to be had in its own thread, and I shan't add it to the first post until someone from WotC comments. Maybe it should be sent to customer service for an inquiry?
I've been reverse engineering the humanoids in the MM and I think that the Bugbear Strangler's HP were hit by some sort of type-o or multiplication error:
The Bugear Strangler is one of three level 6 humanoid lurkers. They all have similar attack bonuses (10 or 11), but the Bugbear has slightly better damage, speed and defences. However, although almost all other humanoid lurkers conform exactly to the HP formula 6 + CON + 6/level, the Bugbear violates this formula severely (it's got 24 extra HP than you would expect using the formula). As this is not balanced by lower stats elsewhere (in fact, as mentioned above, the bugbear is slightly superior in its other stats), I have to assume it was an error.
That's because enemies add half their level to their ability modifiers.
Where is that from? I know you would normally add half the level to attack bonuses, defense, etc. I'm not seeing where they would add them to the attribute bonuses directly. Is this just a shortcut way to track the totals?
Where is that from? I know you would normally add half the level to attack bonuses, defense, etc. I'm not seeing where they would add them to the attribute bonuses directly. Is this just a shortcut way to track the totals?
It's in the beginning of the MM if I recall correctly. In the interest of getting you a response before enworld goes away, I didn't stop to look it up, since I'm off for the night.
Does anyone know how the Student of the Faith feat's Divine Challenge works? I know WotC clarified that the Ranger's Hunter's Quary is 1/encounter "until the end of your next turn." But my question is does Divine Challenge work the same way "until the end of your next turn" or does it last for the rest of the encounter/until the target is marked by someone else? I seems the latter in the PHB, but the clarification of the Warrior of the Wild feat's benefit makes me wonder if that's not how things work. Thanks.
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Ok, take 2. It took me forever to write this blasted reply and I got logged out while I was writing it and lost the first copy. ARG! That goes to show... write your long winded replies in notepad first!! Anyway...
On page 280 under "Determining Cover" it says, "A line isn’t blocked if it runs along the edge of an obstacle’s or an enemy’s square." It seems that the rules of determining line of effect are inferred from the rule for determining line of sight, which makes sense. It says (page 273), "To determine whether you can see [or have line effect to] a target, pick a corner of your space and trace an imaginary line from that corner to any part of the target’s space. You can see [or have line of effect to] the target if at least one line doesn’t pass through or touch an object..."
On page 281 there is a diagram that shows the example of a Burst 2 effect (a 5x5 square effect). It would be really hard for me to describe what I'm trying to say in writing, so I'll make my own little 5x5 diagrams to illustrate what I'm trying to convey. a = affected square, x = non-affected square, o = obstruction
The diagram in the example is as follows:
x x a o a
x o a a a
x o a a a
a a a a a
a a a o o
This is what I think it ought to be by my reckoning of the rules:
x a a o a
x o a a a
a o a a a
a a a a a
a a a o o
I replaced 2 of the x's with a's. The upper x=a because I can trace an imaginary line from the chosen origin square's corner to the target square in question without touching an obstacle. The lower x=a because the imaginary line runs along the edge of the wall, so it isn't considered blocked for determining whether the target square in question is affected by the burst. Now, I don't think that it makes a whole lot of sense that a square that's directly on the other side of a wall from the origin square is affected by a burst, so I think some errata needs to be written...
In this same vein, I would also like to propose some errata. All the examples seem to suggest that you determine line of sight/effect by tracing an imaginary line from a chosen corner of the origin square to any one of the corners of the target square.
The rules say (page 273),
"...pick a corner of your space and trace an imaginary line from that corner to any part of the target’s space..."
The ought to say,
"...pick a corner of your space and trace an imaginary line from that corner to any corner of the target’s space..."
This change makes sense to me because there are an infinite number of lines from a corner of one square to any part of another square. This change is further reinforced by the following rule on page 281, "If three or four of those lines are blocked but you have line of effect, the target has superior cover." If you were to follow both rules as written, then any kind of obstruction, no matter how small, would provide superior cover!
Moreover the following rule,
"If three or four of those lines are blocked but you have line of effect, the target has superior cover."
Ought to say,
"If three of those lines are blocked, the target has superior cover. If all four lines are blocked, you don't have line of effect."
Since there are only 4 imaginary lines that can be drawn from the chosen origin square corner to any of the target square's corners, then you wouldn't have line of effect if all 4 lines are blocked.
In summary, if one or two lines are blocked the target has cover. If three lines are blocked the target has superior cover. If all four lines are blocked, then you don't have line of effect. This falls in line with the line of effect rules (page 273), "If every imaginary line you trace to a target passes through or touches a solid obstacle, you don’t have line of effect to the target."
There seems to be an attack roll missing from the Killing Dark power common to both the Dark Creeper and Dark Stalker. The text in each is identical, suggesting the error was propagated across with a simple c&p; the Dark Stalker text states that 'when slain, a dark creeper explodes in a spout of darkness'. Obviously, this should be Dark Stalker.
The other interpretation is to see the attack as autohit, but seeing as it confers a fairly nasty status effect (blinded), I doubt this was the intention. ('Let's bombard the Tarrasque with Dark Creepers and keep it blinded!')
Does anyone know how the Student of the Faith feat's Divine Challenge works? I know WotC clarified that the Ranger's Hunter's Quary is 1/encounter "until the end of your next turn." But my question is does Divine Challenge work the same way "until the end of your next turn" or does it last for the rest of the encounter/until the target is marked by someone else? I seems the latter in the PHB, but the clarification of the Warrior of the Wild feat's benefit makes me wonder if that's not how things work. Thanks.
Divine Challenge already needs renewed each turn, so it never would last until the end of the encounter. You get to issue it once per combat.
Edit: Ok, I've misremembered, forget all of this
Last edited by StormCrow42; 29th June 2008 at 05:33 AM..
Reason: blah, completely misremembered rule
This is what I think it ought to be by my reckoning of the rules:
x a a o a
x o a a a
a o a a a
a a a a a
a a a o o
I replaced 2 of the x's with a's. The upper x=a because I can trace an imaginary line from the chosen origin square's corner to the target square in question without touching an obstacle.
The diagram in the book is correct. The 2 squares you mention are outside of the burst not because of cover, but because they are out of range. To go around the corner of a wall, you can't go diagonally. PHB p. 273 says you count range from the origin by taking one step to all adjacent squares (allowing you to cut corners only for the first step), and then count further steps normally (without diagonally cutting corners). So those 2 squares are at a range of 3 from the origin square. The statue doesn't fill its square like a wall, so you can count through its space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xane
The lower x=a because the imaginary line runs along the edge of the wall, so it isn't considered blocked for determining whether the target square in question is affected by the burst. Now, I don't think that it makes a whole lot of sense that a square that's directly on the other side of a wall from the origin square is affected by a burst, so I think some errata needs to be written...
Actually, if the only line you can draw to the target square passes along a wall, you don't have line of effect. The rules say the line is blocked if it passes through or touches a blocking obstacle. (It seems that that the 3.5E concept of a spread no longer exists in 4E -- no more fireballs going around corners.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xane
In this same vein, I would also like to propose some errata. All the examples seem to suggest that you determine line of sight/effect by tracing an imaginary line from a chosen corner of the origin square to any one of the corners of the target square.
The rules say (page 273),
"...pick a corner of your space and trace an imaginary line from that corner to any part of the target’s space..."
The ought to say,
"...pick a corner of your space and trace an imaginary line from that corner to any corner of the target’s space..."
This change makes sense to me because there are an infinite number of lines from a corner of one square to any part of another square. This change is further reinforced by the following rule on page 281, "If three or four of those lines are blocked but you have line of effect, the target has superior cover." If you were to follow both rules as written, then any kind of obstruction, no matter how small, would provide superior cover!
I think the rules are OK as written. You seem to be mixing up line-of-sight/line-of-effect with cover, but the rules are slightly different for those two concepts. PHB p. 273 is about line-of-sight/line-of-effect. If you can draw a line to any point of a square, even if all the corner points are blocked, you can target that square with an effect.
PHB p. 281 is about cover. Superior cover only checks to see if lines to the target square's corners are blocked. So no, a small obstruction doesn't automatically provide superior cover, because we're not checking every single line of sight to see if 4 are blocked. We only check the 4 lines to the corners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xane
Moreover the following rule,
"If three or four of those lines are blocked but you have line of effect, the target has superior cover."
Ought to say,
"If three of those lines are blocked, the target has superior cover. If all four lines are blocked, you don't have line of effect."
Since there are only 4 imaginary lines that can be drawn from the chosen origin square corner to any of the target square's corners, then you wouldn't have line of effect if all 4 lines are blocked.
In summary, if one or two lines are blocked the target has cover. If three lines are blocked the target has superior cover. If all four lines are blocked, then you don't have line of effect. This falls in line with the line of effect rules (page 273), "If every imaginary line you trace to a target passes through or touches a solid obstacle, you don’t have line of effect to the target."
You can have all 4 target space corners blocked but still have line of effect. For example, an archer behind an arrow slit would have all of her space's corners blocked, but one would still have line of effect to her space. She has superior cover, but one can still shoot her or throw a spell at her. The arrow slit is the classic example of the difference between cover and line of effect. It's harder to show this happening on a map, but you could have:
If I've drawn this right, the walls 'X' keep the wizard 'w' from drawing a line to any corner of the monster's 'm' space, but he can still draw a line to the middle of the right edge of the 'm' space. So 'w' has line-of-effect to 'm', but 'm' has superior cover from 'w'.
Does anyone know how the Student of the Faith feat's Divine Challenge works? I know WotC clarified that the Ranger's Hunter's Quary is 1/encounter "until the end of your next turn." But my question is does Divine Challenge work the same way "until the end of your next turn" or does it last for the rest of the encounter/until the target is marked by someone else? I seems the latter in the PHB, but the clarification of the Warrior of the Wild feat's benefit makes me wonder if that's not how things work. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCrow42
Divine Challenge already needs renewed each turn, so it never would last until the end of the encounter. You get to issue it once per combat.
The mark from Divine Challenge doesn't need to be renewed each turn. The power is clear that the target remains marked as long as you meet the conditions in the power.
The wording on the damage is badly written. It's not clear to me whether it only kicks in once, or every turn. Whichever way they wanted it to work, there would be better ways to say it. So maybe it doesn't repeat until you reapply the challenge.
And actually, you can't renew Divine Challenge each turn, at least not on the same target. See the Special section in the power.
So this leaves us in a very confusing spot. If you're fighting one opponent, how can you get the damage to apply for more than one turn? If "the first time ... before the start of your next turn" means it only happens once, then you actually have to step away from the enemy, let the Challenge expire, wait a turn because if you let it expire then you're not allowed to use it again right away, and then finally reapply it. Blech. The ugliness of that makes me believe the power is meant to apply the damage every turn if the conditions kick in. But they should correct the phrasing here, or issue a FAQ to clarify it.
To answer jaldaen, as the rules are currently written, the multiclass Divine Challenge can keep a target marked for the whole encounter if you meet the conditions. That makes it more powerful than the other multiclass powers, so they probably didn't want it to work that way. But that's what the rules say at the moment.
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