D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
There are no rings in the PHB below 14th level, so Heroic-tier characters shouldn't be getting the chance to use them anyway. Admittedly, the 1 at Paragon/2 at Epic thing is gone, but the "no rings at Heroic" is still present, just cleverly hidden.
Technically, a heroic tier character could get a hold of a ring. The parcels of rewards for the progress from 10 to 11 would include a lvl 11, a lvl 12, a lvl 13 and a lvl 14 magical item. So a level 10 character could have a ring shortly before he hits Paragon.
Just because 1 encounter or daily power is strictly better than another doesn't necessarily mean its wrong or bad. The same with powers with different names if they have identical effects. What your doing at that point (if you take both) is saying that now I can use this particular power, albeit with different names, twice per encounter or twice per day instead of once.
If it was an at-will power I would totally agree but for encounter/daily I don't think it qualifies as a mistake.
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I'm not 100% sure this is an error, but I'm pretty sure. Page 88 of the DMG, the Doomspore obstacle, says it is a lvl 3 obstacle, but that it's worth 350XP (and can be upgraded to Elite at 700XP). I'm not sure whether it's supposed to be 150XP (and 300 for Elite) and stay at level 3, or moved to level 8 with the same XP. Either way, it's wrong.
I'd lean towards the move it to lvl 8 option due to the elite option, but +6 vs Fort's pretty weak at that level...
PHB page 7 "Throughout the 1980s, the game experienced remarkable growth. Novels, a cartoon series, computer games and the first campaign settings (Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance) were released,"
Does not mention the Greyhawk campaign setting, which I am pretty sure was released (as a boxed set) before Forgotten Realms and am certain was released before Dragonlance.
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✦ p.25: under 'Languages and Scripts' it says, "You can’t choose the Abyssal or Supernal languages as a 1st-level character", it should say, "You can’t choose the Abyssal or Supernal languages with your racial bonus languages" [Mouseferatu]
maybe it means that abyssal and supernal can't be picked by a 1st lvl character with a "linguist" feat either?
Under the strige sample encounters: 2 bonecrusher skeletons (level 7 soldier) - no such monster exists.
Also, many monsters with insubstantial and regeneration seem to get less HP than expected (brutes get 8/level instead of 10, lurkers get 4/level instead of 6 etc.) - not a mistake, just doesn't appear as an official rule in the books.
Just because 1 encounter or daily power is strictly better than another doesn't necessarily mean its wrong or bad. The same with powers with different names if they have identical effects. What your doing at that point (if you take both) is saying that now I can use this particular power, albeit with different names, twice per encounter or twice per day instead of once.
If it was an at-will power I would totally agree but for encounter/daily I don't think it qualifies as a mistake.
I would maybe agree with you if they were the exact same power. However, given the fact that both powers' lower level versions are actually better than their higher level incarnations, I have to disagree. It makes much more sense that one of the powers was changed in isolation to make it better or worse (the lower or higher level power respectively), while the other one wasn't considered, and ended up almost the same. This is especially true given the fact that the multitude of powers a PC has to choose from are supposed to give them options, and although another use of a [slightly worse] power is technically an "option", it isn't one I think is in the spirit of the intent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animal
maybe it means that abyssal and supernal can't be picked by a 1st lvl character with a "linguist" feat either?
This post sums up the reasoning why it would be an error (or at least need clarification) better than I could.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flazzy
Under the strige sample encounters: 2 bonecrusher skeletons (level 7 soldier) - no such monster exists.
Also, many monsters with insubstantial and regeneration seem to get less HP than expected (brutes get 8/level instead of 10, lurkers get 4/level instead of 6 etc.) - not a mistake, just doesn't appear as an official rule in the books.
Added.
It seems like a lot of the monsters in the manual don't follow their own rules very well. I wonder which deviations are intentional and which are accidental.
PHB, page 263. Extended Rest section says under the "No Strenuous Activity" heading that you don't have to sleep during an extended rest. Yet immediately below that under the "Sleeping and Waking Up" heading it says that you have to have slept at least six hours in the last 24 to get a benefit from the rest period. Either these two statements are inconsistent or they are okay with the following:
Under the "Once per Day" heading it says that you have to wait at least 12 hours before resting again. So, at 12am a party rests for six hours, they don't need to set a watch because they have an Eldarin party member. They wake at 6am. They decide to rest again at 6pm. They don't have to sleep at all because by the time 12am rolls around they'll still have slept six hours in the previous 24.
Did they intend to allow this? I doubt that's why there's an inconsistency, but it allows it. Anyway, to summarize, it's a mess.
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Praising 4e = you're right.
Finding anything wrong with it - ANYTHING AT ALL! - even if you overall support it = you're wrong. And closeminded. And dumb. And a bad DM." -ProfessorCirno
I had to scale it down for three players and there was no TPK. I might have scaled away too much.
-OchreJelly on Irontooth
Beholder Eye of Flame. The Central Eye power doesn't have any numbers for attacking, its just states the range and then gives the effect.
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__________________ "Haven't you caught onto how EN World works by now?
Praising 4e = you're right.
Finding anything wrong with it - ANYTHING AT ALL! - even if you overall support it = you're wrong. And closeminded. And dumb. And a bad DM." -ProfessorCirno
I had to scale it down for three players and there was no TPK. I might have scaled away too much.
-OchreJelly on Irontooth
I have only one concern: The white text is nearly unreadable on the PHB style of the board. Also the text disappears if you want to print the page. Maybe another color would be better?
DMG p 145: "Campaign Handout: Keep a copy of the handout you made for your players (page 25)."
Page 25 just mentions handouts for clues to an adventure and suchlike, it says nothing about giving the players a piece of paper with the outlines of your campaign (which is what's implied on p 145).
DMG p 182: "Power Source: This information sometimes interacts with other game rules. See page 54 of the Player's Handbook for more information."
This got me all excited: was there some crunch I had missed on my first read-through? Sadly, no. The text about power sources on page 54 (and 55) of the PH is pure fluff, there is nothing at all about interacting with other game rules.
Regarding the illustration on page 281 in PHB, it was debated and not resolved in the errors thread. As the one who debated against it being an error, I think it shouldn't be included. However, some statement on how to calculate the area of a burst in the presence of obstacles would be nice. In the absence of such a statement, I've assumed you use the same method as for movement (expect that it's stated that the first square counted can be around a corner). Using movement rules, the illustration of the burst is correct.
Additionally, using the rules under "Counting Distance" on pg 273, it is quite clear that the diagram is correct. The square in question is 3 away by the counting rules. If there is some issue with the square near the statue containing the monster, the statue is simply terrain, not an obstacle that completely fills it square. Very simple, and no need to confuse people about it, and I am not going through 18 pages of that other thread either
Here are all the core handbook errors we have collected so far. This post is only for listing the errors themselves, discussion about what things "should have been" should stick with the already going Core Handbook Errors thread. If I missed something, didn't credit something right, or have any other errors of my own, please let me know here.
Thanks for all the hard work everyone, especially Underage AOLer. As one of the guys working on Updates, I'll be monitoring this thread frequently.
Additionally, using the rules under "Counting Distance" on pg 273, it is quite clear that the diagram is correct. The square in question is 3 away by the counting rules. If there is some issue with the square near the statue containing the monster, the statue is simply terrain, not an obstacle that completely fills it square. Very simple, and no need to confuse people about it, and I am not going through 18 pages of that other thread either
From the 'Origin Square' section of 'Area Attack' (p.271): "For a target to be affected by an area attack, there needs to be line of effect from the origin square to the target."
From the 'Burst' section of 'Areas of Effect' (p.272): "A burst affects a target only if there is line of effect from the burst’s origin square to the target."
From 'Line of Effect' (p.273): "You can target a creature or a square if there’s an unblocked path between it and you—that is, if you have line of effect to it. If every imaginary line you trace to a target passes through or touches a solid obstacle, you don’t have line of effect to the target."
Looking at the picture, the upper right corner of the origin square has clear line of effect to the upper right corner of the square in question (A2 using Battleship coordinates) which is the only thing it needs to affect the square. As far as counting the distance goes, even if we were to use those rules to determine affectedness it seems to me that the square is only two squares away, as follows.
Code:
o2x#x
o#1xx
o#@xx
xxxxx
xxx##
o = unaffected, x = affected, # = physical obstacle, @ = origin square, 1 and 2 = counting the distance
Thusly, I believe the picture is in error.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerricB
I can't read your thread. Pretty colours don't help for those on other backgrounds.
So, you admit that they are pretty!
Quote:
Originally Posted by WotC_GregB
Thanks for all the hard work everyone, especially Underage AOLer. As one of the guys working on Updates, I'll be monitoring this thread frequently.
Thank you for your hard work putting out a game that I would spend the effort to fix. Not that it's broken or anything...
Any chance you could give us the "Official Word" on any of the errors that need clarification? I'd hate to incorrectly have something listed and have it be seen as wrong when it is actually right.
As far as counting the distance goes, even if we were to use those rules to determine affectedness it seems to me that the square is only two squares away, as follows.
Code:
o2x#x
o#1xx
o#@xx
xxxxx
xxx##
o = unaffected, x = affected, # = physical obstacle, @ = origin square, 1 and 2 = counting the distance
Thusly, I believe the picture is in error.
From page 273 "The first step in choosing targets for an attack is to check the attack’s range." So Line of Effect is not even an issue until that square is in range. Further along "When counting the distance
from one square to another, start counting from any adjacent square (even one that is diagonally adjacent but around a corner)", which would be square 1. We can't go straight to the square in question because "and then count around solid obstacles that fill their squares" which works just like moving at this point. So you have to go around the corner, making the square in question a distance of 3.
From page 273 "The first step in choosing targets for an attack is to check the attack’s range." So Line of Effect is not even an issue until that square is in range. Further along "When counting the distance
from one square to another, start counting from any adjacent square (even one that is diagonally adjacent but around a corner)", which would be square 1. We can't go straight to the square in question because "and then count around solid obstacles that fill their squares" which works just like moving at this point. So you have to go around the corner, making the square in question a distance of 3.
Code:
o32#x
o#1xx
o#@xx
211xx
xxx##
So, what you're saying is that I should just stick to cataloging, not interpreting?
The whole "count around solid obstacles that fill their squares" thing didn't make any sense to me. In fact, it still sort of doesn't. Whose squares are "their"s? Bah.
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