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Old 25th June 2008, 09:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
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lostpike Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
What armor proficiencies did he have?
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Old 25th June 2008, 09:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Rith the Wanderer Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraydak
*That* won't be in the final version (or if it is, all the other defenders just became obsolete).

I wouldn't expect the above Marking mechanic to make it into the final version either, the amount of damage mitigated is absurdly high.
Maybe the shield doesn't stack with armor (like old mage armow). That would seem to balance out with other defenders (actually a little lower?) except he wouldn't be armored. The damage reduction is pretty ridiculous, but maybe theres some detail that were missing that leads to a more balanced ability.
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Old 25th June 2008, 09:45 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Wish Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
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Originally Posted by Kraydak
*That* won't be in the final version (or if it is, all the other defenders just became obsolete).

I wouldn't expect the above Marking mechanic to make it into the final version either, the amount of damage mitigated is absurdly high.
I don't know, doesn't seem that high. A paladin can get 8 (plate) + 2 (shield), and +2 reflex (shield). A swordmage can get 3 (hide) + 4 Int (shield) + 4 Int (stat). So the paladin gets 10 AC, 2 Ref, the swordmage 11 AC.

Higher levels, figure 14 (plate) +6 (enhancement) + 2 shield for 22 AC and 2 Reflex for the paladin. 5 (hide) + 6 (enhancement) + 8 (Int) + 8 (shield) for 27 AC.

That's pretty marginal at first level, decent at high level (I'm assuming a Demigod for the stat boost for the swordmage), but still only 3 better in total defense for the swordmage, even with the Demigod boost. If you go to 28th+ level, the swordmage pulls a little further ahead, I guess.
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Old 25th June 2008, 10:16 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Why would anyone playing a swordmage not be an Eladrin? A feat for +2 damage with swords and +2 int? Can we say "no-brainer?"
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Old 25th June 2008, 10:30 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by epochrpg
Why would anyone playing a swordmage not be an Eladrin? A feat for +2 damage with swords and +2 int? Can we say "no-brainer?"
A masochistic streak. Random class/race generation. Because Halflings make them jolly.
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Old 25th June 2008, 10:31 PM   #26 (permalink)
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rhm001 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
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Originally Posted by epochrpg
Why would anyone playing a swordmage not be an Eladrin? A feat for +2 damage with swords and +2 int? Can we say "no-brainer?"
The Dex will help with Heavy Blade feats, too. But it depends on how useful Con is. If it helps out the damage (or other aspects of the attacks) enough, you may very well see a decent number of dwarf and half-elf swordmages. Both will get better Fort and Will defenses, unlike the Eldarin; the dwarf is still a great defender, and has an equal damage bump feat, while a swordmage's Int focus means the half-elf is set up to pick up Commander's Strike or a wizard spell, both of which would be nice.
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Old 25th June 2008, 10:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by epochrpg
Why would anyone playing a swordmage not be an Eladrin? A feat for +2 damage with swords and +2 int? Can we say "no-brainer?"
With the snippet of the class we've seen, yes you can say no brainer. When we see more, who knows... I could show someone a halfling rogue build (like KotSF Rogue), and they would likely say, why would anyone playing a rogue, not be a halfling?
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Old 25th June 2008, 11:05 PM   #28 (permalink)
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lostpike Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
and from what i am seeing Wizard of the Spiral Tower seems like it will work well with this!
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Old 25th June 2008, 11:06 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epochrpg
Why would anyone playing a swordmage not be an Eladrin? A feat for +2 damage with swords and +2 int? Can we say "no-brainer?"
Because there might be a charisma build. Which might then question "Why would anyone being a swordmage NOT be a half-elf or a tiefling or a..."
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Old 25th June 2008, 11:07 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Rechan Bugbear Strangler (Lvl 6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraydak
*That* won't be in the final version (or if it is, all the other defenders just became obsolete).

I wouldn't expect the above Marking mechanic to make it into the final version either, the amount of damage mitigated is absurdly high.
Well they need to fix the damn thing quick, because it comes out in a few months.
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Old 25th June 2008, 11:20 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by epochrpg
Why would anyone playing a swordmage not be an Eladrin? A feat for +2 damage with swords and +2 int? Can we say "no-brainer?"
Because the racial feat is only superior to Weapon Focus in the Heroic tier (and worse in the Epic tier)? Because there are other +int races out there? Because the Swordmage may well have a decent number of self-teleports as class-utilities and wants a racial ability that doesn't overlap with his class abilities?
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Old 25th June 2008, 11:41 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Why would anyone playing a swordmage not be an Eladrin? A feat for +2 damage with swords and +2 int? Can we say "no-brainer?"
Not everyone wants to push everything zo the limit. Some people simply like race X and class Y and do not care that race z is more powerfull for class Y and that race x is even weaker than the norm for class Y
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Old 25th June 2008, 11:41 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Definitely gnome - I mean, mark someone like that, then go invisible? Classic.
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Old 26th June 2008, 12:33 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Rechan Bugbear Strangler (Lvl 6)
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Definitely gnome - I mean, mark someone like that, then go invisible? Classic.
You have to be hit to go invisible, I believe.
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Old 26th June 2008, 12:36 AM   #35 (permalink)
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keterys Gnoll Huntmaster (Lvl 5)
Correct.
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Old 26th June 2008, 12:36 AM   #36 (permalink)
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wayne62682 Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
Wow... I want to play one. Right now. I love characters who can meld magic and combat, and this sounds AWESOME.
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Old 26th June 2008, 12:49 AM   #37 (permalink)
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More INT and CON based abilities? Excellent.
Now if only we had a few more DEX and CHA powers.
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Old 26th June 2008, 01:20 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Well, those defensive abilities look good... really good.

I think the Fighter will still hold a nice place by being able to mark multiple foes. But Swordmages and Paladins... could be a tough choice.
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Old 26th June 2008, 01:29 AM   #39 (permalink)
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TheNovaLord Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
the dwarf swordmage (19 CON) also has 63hp which is pretty good!! and its also 7 more than the 17 CON fighter

and the swordmage has the best AC of the 6 supplied PC's

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Old 26th June 2008, 01:32 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dm_from_Brazil
3)AND there is a class feature: Swordmage Warding (INT bounus to AC, iwith one hand free; if rendered unconscious, shield fades and can be restored after a short rest)
Unless there is some additional limitation this is totally overpowered.

If there isn't:
The first new class we get to see and it's already broken? Not a good sign for the upcoming splatbooks...

Well, luckily the class will be in the FR campaign setting, so it's not something I'm going to buy or use anyway.
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