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The adding your int as an AC bonus seems just plain wrong, and after they got AC balance so right, where hide + maxxed stat + shield = plate + shield
(As a note I'm not including any level adjustments here at all as they are all consistent)
the extra AC from the int will put it over the maxed stat + hide + shield
because AC bonus from shield < AC bonus from a maxxed stat by about a maximum of 8 we can see, if the AC bonus replaces that gained by armor but not the armor's +'s It would be more in line
still a bit too strong for my liking hang on what about feats say the feat bonus for AC didn't work for this spellsword as well but it did for the other two types, thats another 1AC!?
Hide = 24AC
Plate = 23 AC
spellsword o doom defence = 26
its in the ballpark but would need a load of errata, I'd make the bonus static +1 at heroic +2 at paragon and +3 at Epic
leading to an overall AC of 25 at max level with the hide armor feat compared to the + 24 of hide and + 23 of plate.
Of course this is assuming maximum stats, So maybe the with my fixed AC bonus of warding the spellsword deserves that higher AC (bear in mind they get a high reflex out of this as well and damage and to hit out of this stat if it goes anything like we think it does)
a non maxed int spellsword is still comparable if he partly focus on it as well, no demi god bonus, will put him equal to a maxxed out hide user, and dropping another 2 points would make him equal to a plate sword and board user.
Meh this is just a thought exercise nothing to get worked up about yet
To Black Flame Zealot, I'm sure they worked out for you in playtest at that level but the math seems to see it spiral out of control in later levels, bear in mind that all this ward is replacing is the shield bonus (cause you need a spare hand, though maybe ditch sword and use a shield as well? ) and if that bonus can go above the max for a shield which is 2 then it out powers it (no need to include the shield feat bonus as it doesn't stack with the armor specialisation feat) as otherwise lightarmor and int/dex maxed = plate armor round about in AC terms
__________________ Ginnel
"Someone on the internet is wrong!"
Shabe on sharing loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabe
Of course you may be talking about all of the above in character where all the characters in the party count every single coin and keep track of it individually and all know the exact price of items, all can divide big numbers in their heads and all carry around a handy set of dice with them for when the roll off occurs, then of course you are fine, else well done you've taken some of the r out or rpg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginnel
If you want to create something different do it.
All elves are fat and prone to flatulence and their nickname is Gary.
Bang I've just changed my world do the same with yours.
what I actually look like
me in B&W
me in red
me in yoga pose
Last edited by Ginnel; 27th June 2008 at 11:56 AM..
Well, a balancing act could be if the swordmage has only cloth proficiency while being a defender.
Hide = 24AC
Plate = 23 AC
spellsword o doom defence = 26
I factored that in here, without realising it EDIT scratch that masterwork cloth gives +2 AC armor bonus making it 28 AC overall nah too much
__________________ Ginnel
"Someone on the internet is wrong!"
Shabe on sharing loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabe
Of course you may be talking about all of the above in character where all the characters in the party count every single coin and keep track of it individually and all know the exact price of items, all can divide big numbers in their heads and all carry around a handy set of dice with them for when the roll off occurs, then of course you are fine, else well done you've taken some of the r out or rpg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginnel
If you want to create something different do it.
All elves are fat and prone to flatulence and their nickname is Gary.
Bang I've just changed my world do the same with yours.
what I actually look like
me in B&W
me in red
me in yoga pose
Last edited by Ginnel; 27th June 2008 at 12:44 PM..
Well, a balancing act could be if the swordmage has only cloth proficiency while being a defender.
That wouldn't matter at all. Getting Leather proficiency is one feat without prereqs, and Hide prof wouldn't be very hard at all... and even beyond that, it's still broken...
on a side note it'd be quite cool if the monk class had a dexterity and wis bonus to AC and couldn't use any armor or shields
this would lead to hmm 2 16's? which would max out as +9 each so that would be 18 AC +2 for the masterwork cloth + 6 for the enchancement bonus 26 overall bonus, still overpowered? I think not because that would leave his strength woefully low, lets say his main stat is Str for attack, with nice supplements for dex and wis, Wow sounding more and more like a fighter, but its what works ; )
well who knows
__________________ Ginnel
"Someone on the internet is wrong!"
Shabe on sharing loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabe
Of course you may be talking about all of the above in character where all the characters in the party count every single coin and keep track of it individually and all know the exact price of items, all can divide big numbers in their heads and all carry around a handy set of dice with them for when the roll off occurs, then of course you are fine, else well done you've taken some of the r out or rpg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginnel
If you want to create something different do it.
All elves are fat and prone to flatulence and their nickname is Gary.
Bang I've just changed my world do the same with yours.
so the +INT is a guess by the original poster... Perhaps it is just a fixed +3 bonus...
that would be cool, like wielding a +1 to defence shield (which don't exist do they?) without taking up a bracers slot, I'm gonna call the 5min to get it back up (f'nar f'nar) as equal to a non spellsword losing his shield but being able to pick one up straight away if ones around.
So better than a plate fighter and a dex dealing light armor user
In my opinion they have to be really careful with power creep, I absolutely and I mean absolutely hate it, and it would be counterintuitive to what looks to be one of 4th editions main strength, balance.
Just to reitterate Power creep = bad, in terms of game design, your base classes should be just as powerful as ones which come out 5 years down the line
__________________ Ginnel
"Someone on the internet is wrong!"
Shabe on sharing loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabe
Of course you may be talking about all of the above in character where all the characters in the party count every single coin and keep track of it individually and all know the exact price of items, all can divide big numbers in their heads and all carry around a handy set of dice with them for when the roll off occurs, then of course you are fine, else well done you've taken some of the r out or rpg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginnel
If you want to create something different do it.
All elves are fat and prone to flatulence and their nickname is Gary.
Bang I've just changed my world do the same with yours.
Aegis of Shielding
Swordmage Feature
You create an arcane link between you and a foe, allowing you to instantly
respond to its attacks with a counterassault.
At-Will ✦ Arcane, Teleportation
Minor Action Close burst 2
Target: One creature in burst
Effect: You mark the target. The target remains marked until you use
this power against another target. If you mark other creatures using
other powers, the target is still marked. A creature can be subject to
only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was
already in place.
If your marked target makes an attack that doesn’t include you
as a target, it takes a ---2 penalty to attack rolls. If that attack hits and the attacker is within 10 squares of you, you can use an immediate
interrupt to reduce the damage dealt by that attack to any one
creature by 9 points.
9 pts... 5+ con mod....5+1/2 level???
The teleport keyword has me scratching my head also...
As for the AC I don't see a proble with it being +3...but Int mod might be too much
I'm surprised no one's found the other new information yet on the character sheets...
Well, maybe if someone would be so kind as to post said sheets on the WotC homepage...
*evil grin*
... or maybe I'm just bitter 'cuz I can't figure out how this whole RPGA thing works and my herald-level DM card just sits in my back pocket for lack of use.
__________________ If my post comes off as unnecessarily snarky, it's because I have a disability.
I suspect that the int bonus from the shield ward, if it is indeed based on int, would probably only be applicable if the swordmage is wearing no armor, or maybe as much as cloth armor just like the monk variant of the ranger.
I suspect that the int bonus from the shield ward, if it is indeed based on int, would probably only be applicable if the swordmage is wearing no armor, or maybe as much as cloth armor just like the monk variant of the ranger.
I suspect that the int bonus is an ARMOR bonus, so it simply doesn't stack with armor, but the character may choose to wear, say, hide, just in case he gets denied that bonus for whatever reason.
Edit: Err... didn't mean to phrase the beginning exactly like your comment, Ryuujin. No mockery intended, just my prediction.
__________________ If my post comes off as unnecessarily snarky, it's because I have a disability.
Bah! I absolutely hate this class. It just doesn't look nearly as well designed as any of the PHB classes.
The sword shouldn't double as their implement. Why not model them after their divine counterpart, the Paladin, and have a sword enchantment that allows them to use it as an implement like the Holy Avenger or Pact Blade? That way you have a choice of using a melee weapon in one hand and an arcane implement (a wand!) in the other, or giving up your weapon special property to add the implement property to your weapon.
Aegis of Shielding is odd. It's arguably too powerful, it's not cool, and it's not as interesting a mechanic to work with as the Paladin and Fighter challenges. I'd design it as follows: When the marked target attacks someone other than you, you can teleport adjacent to them and make a melee basic attack.
If they really do get twice their int bonus to AC then that is completely broken for obvious reasons. Starting with a 20 and entering Demigod means you're pretty much impossible to hit on anything but a natural 20. You can buy whatever armor proficiencies you may or may not lack. Seriously, you're going to have an AC 9 points higher than a Paladin or Fighter in Plate armor; 11 points higher if they don't use a shield. Even if it IS just a straight +3 bonus I don't understand why it's 1 point higher than a heavy shield. Additionally, you may be able to use a shield in your main hand and just rely on something like Wizard or Cleric at-will powers to boost your AC even further.
Finally, and this is clearly a very subjective statement, I don't find most of the powers cool at all. People play Gish so they can hurl fireballs, teleport around, strike three enemies with a lightning bolt, etc and then mix it up in melee as well. The idea is that you have all these awesome single target and area of effect ranged magical attacks instead of the bow or throwing ax a normal fighter would carry, and then fight in melee the rest of the time.
This character doesn't do that, he just has a bunch of elemental effects for his sword. A warrior-mage casts spells.
If the Int to AC doesn't stack with armor then it's still a few points out of whack. Masterwork Hide plus Heavy Shield is +7, while the Swordmage is going to have between +8 and +10. It's not much terribly out of whack in this case, but it's still out of whack. And why? All of the other armor math is perfectly balanced, shouldn't this be too?
Additionally, it's thematically strange. Why do we now see Swordmages fighting in no armor when Wizards can use Hide?
If the Int to AC doesn't stack with armor then it's still a few points out of whack. Masterwork Hide plus Heavy Shield is +7, while the Swordmage is going to have between +8 and +10. It's not much terribly out of whack in this case, but it's still out of whack. And why? All of the other armor math is perfectly balanced, shouldn't this be too?
Additionally, it's thematically strange. Why do we now see Swordmages fighting in no armor when Wizards can use Hide?
Honsetly I don't understand what you are saying. You do realize this is a Defender? Like the Fighter and Paladin, one who will likely be wearing at least scale, if not plate, and would likely specialize in his chosen armor; and the other who starts with plate and would likewise likely specialize in it. Godplate, the most likely armor for a defender to wear at the level that the int bonus would be 9 or 10, is 20 points of AC before specialization or shield bonus.
This character will be incapable of wielding a shield, is supposed to be lightly armored at best and if I, and others, are correct will not have this shielding ward stack with any worn armor. This gives a Demigod, with a maxed int, with a race that grants +2 to int, at the same level a total of +20 to AC. When you add in a heavy shield, and shield specialization or plate specialization the paladin or plate wearing fighter could fairly easily have 3 more points of AC.
Now I admit that if the Swordmage can wear armor and have its AC stack with this ward, which I highly doubt, it could potentially lead to them having a higher AC than any other Defender, but this would also require a huge investment in regards to their stats.
__________________ Not all bean-counting is of equal importance. ~Mallus
Sometimes I think people view gaming as practice for law school than as an enjoyable leisure activity. ~Professor Phobos
Some people enjoy building sandcastles. Others enjoy kicking them over. ~Wormwood
I bet it will just give you there mark 1x per encounter just like the other 2 defenders
I wonder if you can use a weapon besides a sword for example a sickle.
Is the swordmage going to be in the FR Player's Guide or the Campaign book? I am guessing the Player's which means we will not see the full class for awhile.
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