D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
Looks like my DM is all enamored of 4e (knew I shouldn't have run KOTS... ) and will probably renege on his plans to keep our current campaign going until we hit at least the high teens. Probably. I hope he at least waits until Martial Power is out, but anyhoo...
The next game is supposed to be urban based, which I love. I'm planning an eladrin rogue/warlock (originally wizard, but 'lock works better and has some good plot hook potential). Standard point buy. Here's what I've got currently. Can he be "turned up to 11"? Specifically, I want to know if there's any way to bump the Eyebite, as +3 is t3h suxx0r compared to the +8 my melee attacks get. Also, do his power choices "work"? He is pretty much focused on mobility -- either his or his enemies'. I figure positioning is vital in 4e, so he has several ways to help -- Fey Step, Deft Strike, Positioning Strike, Trick Strike. With those and Eyebite as a backup, I can be pretty assured of having CA most of the time, which should offset the lack of dagger damage.
Thoughts?
The only other class I'm 99.99% sure will be in the party will be a Warlord.
Equipment:
Leather Armor (+2 Armor)
Dagger 1d4, +4 to hit (w/rogue ability)
__________________ The Abyss Project! What sort of madman would try to document 666 layers of the Abyss? This sort! Three down.... 663 to go! New 4e monsters, artifacts, or some sort of crunch with each layer!
Looks like you took a 16 in your primary stat (before racial ability modifiers). This costs a lot and I am still not convinced it's worth it if you want to multi-class or have some feat versatility. So, that might be the first thing I'd look to change to get some spare points for Charisma. (This will help your "artful dodging", too)
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Secret Member of <Think we would just hide our secret with a spoiler tag, eh?>
My advice would be to lower Wis and increase Cha or Dex. 4ed characters are supposed to excel at one class, and increasingly dabble into a second. I know Wis 13 is needed for Dark Fury, but somethings gotta give.
For that matter, why Int so high?
Edit: I see why. Using method 1 with Eladrin always yields Int of at least 12.
Edit 2: Using method 1 also makes increasing Cha impossible without lowering Dex.
Maybe you could use Method 2 instead? Then first focus on keeping Dex high and also getting Cha to 16.
Last edited by yu gnomi; 11th July 2008 at 01:34 PM..
Looks like you took a 16 in your primary stat (before racial ability modifiers). This costs a lot and I am still not convinced it's worth it if you want to multi-class or have some feat versatility. So, that might be the first thing I'd look to change to get some spare points for Charisma. (This will help your "artful dodging", too)
Next question: what do you need INT and WIS for?
Int, not so much mechanically, though out of combat he's supposed to be a con man and being able to remember key facts is important. IAE, it's my second-lowest stat. Wisdom -- Perception+Insight, both pretty vital, and my Will defense, of course. (Oh wait...will is Cha based, isn't it?)
IAE, Charisma is my second-highest stat using the standard array. (16,14,13,12,11,10). I suppose I could 'balance' things by putting the 14 in Dex (bumped to 16 by race) and the 16 in Cha...so both end up at +3 instead of one +2 and one +4. Not sure about that, I really want to maximize my chance of hitting in melee, what with being a striker and all. With relatively poor HP, defenses, and surges, it seems I need to take foes down fast -- I can't survive many hit. (The various mobility features help there.)
__________________ The Abyss Project! What sort of madman would try to document 666 layers of the Abyss? This sort! Three down.... 663 to go! New 4e monsters, artifacts, or some sort of crunch with each layer!
Looks like my DM is all enamored of 4e (knew I shouldn't have run KOTS... ) and will probably renege on his plans to keep our current campaign going until we hit at least the high teens. Probably. I hope he at least waits until Martial Power is out, but anyhoo...
You have a lot of good synergies with a fey dodger. My question is going forward do you see your rogue taking more 'lock powers? If you are only looking at Eyebite, I would be concerned about the low to hit. It is versus reflex, typically a weaker defense, so that helps. You will be attacking with Combat advantage most strikes so there is another +2. A magic implement can further boost your to hit. Eyebite will not be as reliable as sticking your knife/rapier in, but it will hit at least 50% of the time, higher percentage if you can get more favorable conditions.
If you are looking at making more of a true multiclass, I would steal from Wis to raise Cha to 16. It enhances your artful dodger and enables your 'lockness to be only slightly behind the curve. I know the loss of Wis will hurt your perception rolls but it will not hurt your will defense to pump Cha. Also note that Cha powers will always trail your melee by +2 or +3 from weapon proficiency in addition to the +1 stat differential. Any Dex attack is much more likely to hit even versus Fort or AC. It is the cost of the arcane. The wand will be your friend when you can get a magic one. Rods don't have too much help without the pact benefit.
If you are looking at making more of a true multiclass, I would steal from Wis to raise Cha to 16. It enhances your artful dodger and enables your 'lockness to be only slightly behind the curve. I know the loss of Wis will hurt your perception rolls but it will not hurt your will defense to pump Cha. Also note that Cha powers will always trail your melee by +2 or +3 from weapon proficiency in addition to the +1 stat differential. Any Dex attack is much more likely to hit even versus Fort or AC. It is the cost of the arcane. The wand will be your friend when you can get a magic one. Rods don't have too much help without the pact benefit.
I'll rebuild him w/points instead of array.
Also, I was thinking pactblade for the obvious synergies...
__________________ The Abyss Project! What sort of madman would try to document 666 layers of the Abyss? This sort! Three down.... 663 to go! New 4e monsters, artifacts, or some sort of crunch with each layer!
Also, I was thinking pactblade for the obvious synergies...
For the multiclass character I have built I used a 16, 16, 12, 12, 10, 8 array. (Becoming a 18, 16, 12, 12, 12, 8 character including racial bonuses.) The 16, 16, 13, 11, 10, 8 array might be even better, depending on what your needs are when it comes to feats.
Just a quick note so you don't get into something you didn't mean to --
Remember that Eyebite is invisibility until the START of your next turn, so you'll only be able to get a sneak attack out of it if you use an action point. It could be useful for getting yourself hidden, though, I suppose.
Just so's you know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grimslade
If you are only looking at Eyebite, I would be concerned about the low to hit. It is versus reflex, typically a weaker defense, so that helps.
My groups has made great use of the 'sample arrays' from page 18; they cover virtually any combination you want without having to actually do the math!
Quote:
Also, I was thinking pactblade for the obvious synergies...
Obviously!
I would probably look at taking the two-weapon feats if possible, with a pact blade in your offhand and a more standard dagger in the other -- I like the looks of Lifedrinker for a melee rogue, and Duellist is an obvious pick (though I prefer Lifedrinker, which benefits you every time you drop somebody much like the hell pact's boon, to a conditional bonus on crits and a daily power).
Last edited by Keenath; 11th July 2008 at 02:56 PM..
Well, the main problem with multiclassing is MAD.
The solution to MAD is to pick a race that is good for both classes and invest heavily in primary stats.
If I were to build a rogue/warlock, I'd go with 16, 16, 13, 11, 10, 8.
Pick halfling, and allocate stats accordingly.
Hmm ...
Say stats of Str 13, Dex 18, Con 11, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 18
Take shield proficiency (light) at level 2 (and shield specialization at paragon), and away you go.
__________________ The Passion of Lovers is for Death
This is hard to answer without knowing how you built your character, and what your priorities are. Are you intending to go hardcore into the multiclass? Because if you're dipping, you'll have different priorities than if you're going all out. As a dipper I'd accept your current stat line, because you'll be using Eyebite in situations where melee isn't appropriate, and you'll be able to deal with the lower attack roll. But if you intend to take further multiclass feats, particularly the encounter power one, you'll want a better attack bonus from your charisma.
It seems like you used the standard array, and your initial scores were "10/16/12/11/13/14," which you have written in 3e order, exactly as I always do right before I erase them and rewrite them correctly for 4e. Is this a hard limit? The array works really well for most characters, but multiclass is finicky and I might try point buy. In that case, I'd restat as 10/12/16/10/10/16. Its a bit boring, but it gets you where you want to go. You could even drop Int to an 8 and rely on the Eladrin bonus to improve it, then invest the points somewhere else.
Another option is to be a Halfling instead of an Eladrin, and get both dex and cha bonuses. Halfling rogues are a strong option anyways.
Does Int matter to you for Ritual Casting? It would be a nice "turn up to 11" type addition to your character, since it provides so many options for customization. And scoping a target with scrying is thematic for a rogue/warlock. If you intend to get Ritual Casting, I'd keep the 13 Int, otherwise I'd drop it.
There's not much else you can do to pimp out your level 1 character. But I'd be taking a hard look at Otherwind Stride, the level 3 fey warlock power that lets you teleport and do damage to those adjacent to you as you vanish. Its an excellent mix of mobility (to get a flanking position) and area of effect damage (close burst 1). Attacking multiple foes makes up for not having the best attack bonus from charisma, and the powerful Effect entry means that you'll be getting good mileage out of it even if you miss with everything.
For multiclass utility powers, you have a lot of options, but nothing jumps out. If your rogue has a shtick, like "jumps really well" or "is very stealthy," there are options to improve your talents at this from either class. But for flavor, I'd make sure that the best of your utility powers related to this ability was selected from the warlock class.
For daily multiclass powers, I'd avoid ones with attack rolls, and go straight for Armor of Agathys. It does damage to adjacent enemies automatically, and requires no attack roll. Also gives you a handful of temporary hit points. Normal warlocks have trouble using this because being adjacent to enemies screws them, but you won't necessarily care. Also, it lasts an entire encounter, which adds more warlock flavor than a single round attack.
Personally, I wouldn't use a paragon path multiclass. I don't think you need it.
Eventually, you'll be needing special implements. My personal taste would be to skip the pact blade, and go for a dual wielded dagger and implement combo. It lets you customize the purpose of each weapon more efficiently, even if it costs more. And its cooler.
) and will probably renege on his plans to keep our current campaign going until we hit at least the high teens. Probably. I hope he at least waits until Martial Power is out, but anyhoo...
Linear Mode
Sidebar