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Boy, THAT's a phrase that's never been spoken in D&D before...
In an interview with Mike Mearls a while back, he discussed the possibility of MM PC races getting a full Dragon writeup like the Warforged did. In his comments, he said, "Maybe not all of them… Kobolds, for example, are too powerful."
Um... are they? What's powerful about them?
It seems to me that their only real benefit is Shifty, which simply allows a minor action shift each turn. If they're willing to use the action, they can shift one square more than any other race.
Is it just that shifting is so valuable? Certainly they're good at what they do, but the don't have some of the really good non-power racial bonuses other classes get like Draconic Fury, Stand Your Ground, or Fire Resistance...
I don't think they're weak, but I don't see where they're particularly powerful. Anyone know what he meant by that?
I think it's not too powerful for monster kobolds, but could get very strong in the hands of PC-kobolds. A critter that flanks gets +2 to hit and maybe 1d6 extra damage. A PC can easily squeeze out a lot more than that.
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I might be wrong but I strongly suppose he was being somewhat ironic.
Why ironic? Kobolds have been getting more and more powerful since their start. People have a strong desire to "surprise" players by making weak monsters powerful, and kobolds have reaped the benefit of this.
Shifting as an at will minor action? What race wouldn't want to trade their mediocre encounter power for this? All classes benefit strongly from this.
If I had a player who wanted to play a kobold, I'd say "fine, play a reskinned halfling."
It seems to me that their only real benefit is Shifty, which simply allows a minor action shift each turn. If they're willing to use the action, they can shift one square more than any other race.
Is it just that shifting is so valuable? Certainly they're good at what they do, but the don't have some of the really good non-power racial bonuses other classes get like Draconic Fury, Stand Your Ground, or Fire Resistance...
Shifting at will for only the cost of a minor action is really that valuable. The ability to disengage and still move where you want to go is priceless for any class. You can use it to retreat from the bad guys if you're getting battered. You can use it to sneak in behind enemy lines and attack their artillery. And if nothing else, you can use it to get that extra square of movement when you need it most. Shifting rocks.
I think it might have to do with the fact that they get an at-will racial. But I'd sooner say the MM Drow was too powerful.
You may not be one of these, but just in case -- I've heard that comment from a lot of people who haven't twigged to the fact that a drow doesn't get two encounter powers, but rather one encounter power with two possible effects (similar to the cleric's Channel Divinity). And they get virtually nothing OTHER than those two choices, so I don't see where the "powerful" argument comes from.
Shifting at will for only the cost of a minor action is really that valuable... Shifting rocks.
Well, I know it does, but that doesn't mean it's OVERpowered. It's a good ability, but mobility only goes so far, frankly.
Yeah, it's at will, but so are most PC abilities. They didn't write a statblock for Draconic Fury or Bloodhunt, but those are awesome abilities none the less.
The claim is that kobolds are overpowered, and I just don't see that they put halflings or elves in the shade -- or even Goblins.
You may not be one of these, but just in case -- I've heard that comment from a lot of people who haven't twigged to the fact that a drow doesn't get two encounter powers, but rather one encounter power with two possible effects (similar to the cleric's Channel Divinity). And they get virtually nothing OTHER than those two choices, so I don't see where the "powerful" argument comes from.
How about the fact that they're the only PC race that gets Darkvision? And they also get Trance.
All I know is that the Kobold rogue in our party is friggin disgusting. Rogues are already the best striker in terms of shear damage output (at low levels anyway). With shifty he can back out of the fight with one enemy to go get another one that is on the ropes. He can double shift to get all the way around a medium sized opponent. So he deals a huge amount of damage (you really can't stop him from getting the flank). He doesn't have a strength penalty anymore so he is strong.
He is one nasty little kobold. Most powerful race? Yeah probably (by a hair). It doesn't bug me yet though. He still can't do it alone. I would like to see the other races get similar cool stuff rather then swing the nerf bat and hammer kobold down.
All I know is that the Kobold rogue in our party is friggin disgusting. Rogues are already the best striker in terms of shear damage output (at low levels anyway). With shifty he can back out of the fight with one enemy to go get another one that is on the ropes. He can double shift to get all the way around a medium sized opponent. So he deals a huge amount of damage (you really can't stop him from getting the flank). He doesn't have a strength penalty anymore so he is strong.
He is one nasty little kobold. Most powerful race? Yeah probably (by a hair). It doesn't bug me yet though. He still can't do it alone. I would like to see the other races get similar cool stuff rather then swing the nerf bat and hammer kobold down.
How about the fact that they're the only PC race that gets Darkvision? And they also get Trance.
To be a tad pedantic, kobolds are NOT a PC race. They are a monster race, in the Monster Manual in a section that clearly states that these racial stats are not balanced for use as PCs.
All I know is that the Kobold rogue in our party is friggin disgusting. Rogues are already the best striker in terms of shear damage output (at low levels anyway). With shifty he can back out of the fight with one enemy to go get another one that is on the ropes. He can double shift to get all the way around a medium sized opponent. So he deals a huge amount of damage (you really can't stop him from getting the flank). He doesn't have a strength penalty anymore so he is strong.
He is one nasty little kobold. Most powerful race? Yeah probably (by a hair). It doesn't bug me yet though. He still can't do it alone. I would like to see the other races get similar cool stuff rather then swing the nerf bat and hammer kobold down.
If you ask me, 4E kobolds are a shout-out to Pun-Pun.
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To be a tad pedantic, kobolds are NOT a PC race. They are a monster race, in the Monster Manual in a section that clearly states that these racial stats are not balanced for use as PCs.
To be a tad pedantic, I wasn't talking about Kobolds. I was talking about Drow, in comparison to Kobolds, and on the current subject, which is their relative power overall. I don't think the existence of a qualifier alters the point Mearls made.
To be a tad pedantic, kobolds are NOT a PC race. They are a monster race, in the Monster Manual in a section that clearly states that these racial stats are not balanced for use as PCs.
To be even more pedantic, that's not actually what it says. It says, "This information can also be used as guidelines for creating player character (PC) versions of these creatures, within reason. Note that these traits and powers are more in line with monster powers than with player character powers."
Or, to paraphrase, "You can use these writeups for PC races, but we haven't fine-tuned them for PC use the way we did with the stuff in the PHB. Use with a modicum of caution."
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One of the Dwarf racials is the ability to use Second Wind (a per encounter power) as a Minor action.
Being able to Shift (an at-will ability) as a minor action adds a LOT of tactical options.
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How much of the balance could change if they could only use Shifty once per round?
No one seems to say that Goblins are too powerful, when they can shift 1/round as an immediate reaction from a melee attack. So does restricting shifty to 1/round make Kobolds "balanced".
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