D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
So, there's all this talk about how certain builds, character concepts, class features, powers, feats, and races "suck" - all due to the entirely inconsequential factor of the limited weapon selection in the Player's Handbook.
ALL of the current arguments and assumptions are going to change dramatically in two months when the Adventurer's Vault book is released, with a whole pile of new weapons to choose from.
They'll change a bit more with the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide.
They'll change again a LOT with Martial Power in just one month more.
So basically, don't bother to judge the real viability, relative strength, or flexibility of any weapon-based character build issues just yet, because a ton of stuff that they didn't get into the PHB is coming very soon.
In the meantime, I've made a little list which you might like. I examined all of the melee weapons carefully, analyzing the exact upgrade factors from simple to military weapons, and from military to superior. Simple weapons are a bit messy and not perfectly consistent in their "allocated power level", and in just how much that power level increases when they step up to a military counterpart. So I'm not messing with them.
But superior weapons follow an obvious and uniform progression. Every superior weapon is simply a military weapon with ONE of the following boosts applied to it:
1) If the weapon is +2 proficiency normally, it becomes +3, no other changes.
2) If the weapon is already +3, it can EITHER:
2a) Step up the damage die one size, OR:
2b) It can gain the "high crit" property, with no other changes.
So, a military weapon which is +2 proficiency only has one possible superior counterpart, which is a weapon identical except for being +3 proficiency instead.
A military weapon which is +3 proficiency already AND high crit already only has one possible superior counterpart, which is a weapon identical except for being one damage die size larger.
However, a military weapon which is +3 proficiency already but NOT high crit has TWO possible superior counterparts, which are a weapon identical except for being high crit, or a weapon identical except for being one damage die size larger.
Note: There are plenty of other "possible" superior weapons, as you could theoretically try converting simple weapons to superior, or use other forms of "one improvement" such as adding reach, changing versatile status, adding a thrown property, raising range, not requiring a +2 proficiency to go to +3, and so on. HOWEVER, none of those are "for sure" consistent and balanced with the present rules paradigm. In other words, I don't know which, if any, of those changes would fit with the designers' intent.
So I'm not messing around with any of those theoretical options.
Going solely by what I know is perfectly congruent with the current weapon selection, what I know balances out with present weapons, there are exactly the following possible superior weapons (again, I say "possible" in the context of totally disregarding any change which I'm not certain is fully in line with current design protocol):
One battleaxe, one flail, one handaxe, two longswords, one scimitar, two shortswords, one throwing hammer, one warhammer, one war pick, one falchion, one glaive, one greataxe, two greatswords, one halberd, one heavy flail, one longspear, and one maul.
(Note that both of the possible shortswords and one of the longswords are already "used" by the superior weapons in the book. The spiked chain is a bit of an "extra", as it's technically a superior glaive by stats, but the type is changed. So it's not counted in this list.)
Now, I was just going to say, "Hey, if you want to make a few extra superior weapon choices, here's exactly how to do it to make sure that you're not breaking the formula." But instead, I went ahead and made up a quick list showing exactly what each of the possible superior weapons would be statted like, so you can just drop them right into your game if you wish, with no fear that you're introducing something unbalanced, quantitatively "better" than current weapons, or inconsistent with the developers' intentions.
I haven't given any of these special names (ie, "Rapier" instead of "Superior Short Sword"). You can name them yourself, if you want to. Each weapon simply lists three things - the proficiency bonus (all of which are +3), the damage die type, and whatever special "properties" the weapon has. All other weapon information is the same as the base weapon, although you may choose to alter the gold piece value or weight as you see fit.
Superior Battleaxe: +3 / 1d10 / Versatile Superior Flail: +3 / 1d10 / Versatile Superior Handaxe: +3 / 1d6 / Off-Hand, Heavy Thrown Superior Longsword: +3 / 1d8 / Versatile, High Crit Superior Scimitar: +3 / 1d8 / High Crit Superior Throwing Hammer: +3 / 1d6 / Off-Hand, Heavy Thrown Superior Warhammer: +3 / 1d10 / Versatile Superior War Pick: +3 / 1d8 / Versatile, High Crit Superior Falchion: +3 / 1d10 / High Crit Superior Glaive: +3 / 2d4 / Reach Superior Greataxe: +3 / 1d12 / High Crit Superior Greatsword A: +3 / 1d12 / - Superior Greatsword B: +3 / 1d10 / High Crit Superior Halberd: +3 / 1d10 / Reach Superior Heavy Flail: +3 / 2d6 / - Superior Longspear: +3 / 1d10 / Reach Superior Maul: +3 / 2d6 / -
For the original poster of the thread this is forked from, talking about a dearth of weapon choices for a halfling fighter . . . that "Superior Scimitar" is just what you're looking for.
Actually, that's not what I'm looking for at all. I'm not looking for additional superior weapons, but rather decent military weapons that are not scimitars.
And/or a reason that small characters are limited without compensation.
It's a good list, but it doesn't answer my concerns at all.
I would like to see a +3 superior reach weapon that isn't the spiked chain. (My fellow palyers and I have never liked that weapon). Thanks. Now I just have to convince the DM that a Guisarme-Voulge-Glaive-Lochaber Axe-Lucern Hammer (+3 1-10 reach) exists.
I would like to see a +3 superior reach weapon that isn't the spiked chain. (My fellow palyers and I have never liked that weapon). Thanks. Now I just have to convince the DM that a Guisarme-Voulge-Glaive-Lochaber Axe-Lucern Hammer (+3 1-10 reach) exists.
Just rename the spiked chain and describe it a different way.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
