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Hi all, just wondering if there is an errata for this combo? It seems a little overpowered, allowing continual CA and bonus 5 damage for rogues or rangers (or any class using a weapon power). I get the impression the feats were meant for spellcasters and their limited cold powers (apart perhaps from the wizard with ray of frost). Alternatively if this combo doesn't work, if you don't think it's overpowered, I'd love to hear why. Thanks in advance!
It works. There have been at least a dozen threads on this already. It costs two feats and it only works with a Frost weapon. Meaning you lose out on all the other possible weapon powers.
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Sorry, that probably looks more snarky than intended. Should teach me to pay attention to join date and post count. Still, I could swear there was a post about it on the top of page 1 yesterday. Could be mistaken, though.
Anyways, yeah, I'm pretty sure it works.
__________________ Not all bean-counting is of equal importance. ~Mallus
Sometimes I think people view gaming as practice for law school than as an enjoyable leisure activity. ~Professor Phobos
Some people enjoy building sandcastles. Others enjoy kicking them over. ~Wormwood
That said, it might prompt yet another clarification of the keyword inheritance of magic items such that the frost weapon's free power doesn't affect the keyword of any powers but only the damage type inflicted, so don't be afraid of the nerf bat on this one. +2 hit +5 damage for all attacks is a bit strong for two feats.
CA every round isn't really that big a deal - it's rare for there to not be a way to get it: the only difference is with the combo that your part of the tactical game on the battlefield just got a lot easier and much less interesting, and you're making the battlefield a bit less dynamic and interesting.
It's the 5 extra damage per hit that is probably the more powerful aspect.
I think the combo is probably more powerful for a mage than for a melee fighter. It's harder for a caster to get CA, and the hit and damage boost is likely to be applied to more targets.
Even without the inheritance stuff, the feat is possibly a tad powerful. It just seems flat-out better than any of the other elemental-style feats until you look at niche situations.
I hope inheritance stays. I really like the idea that a melee character can take a feat to make a special weapon function better. Personally I like the look of lightning arc on a daggermaster (a second target takes a full hit instead of maximising dice? Yes please!). It's a serious shame that there isn't a feat that lets your fire powers ignite targets (instead we get that awful "slightly reduce resistance" one....)
At first I thought this seems wrong, but according to the PHB FAQ it's legal...
Quote:
When do a Magic Item's keywords apply?
If you use a magic item's power in conjunction with a power granted to you by your race or class, that item's keywords are added to the regular keywords of the power you are using. For example, if you are have a Flaming Weapon, and you use an at-will power to attack an enemy along with the at-will power of the Flaming Weapon, your attack will have the Fire keyword in addition to the normal keywords of your attack. You have to be using the powers of the weapon for those keywords to be added; simply using the magic item does not necessarily mean every keyword attached to a power of that item will be added.
It's not CA every round. If you miss, it'll be at least one round where you have to jockey for position or not have combat advantage. The +5 damage is really nice, but you're giving up the other possibilities for a weapon, including Vicious (great for Daggermasters). It also costs a paragon feat and a heoic feat, neither of which are likely to be of any use for you when you're not swinging that weapon.
That said, it might prompt yet another clarification of the keyword inheritance of magic items such that the frost weapon's free power doesn't affect the keyword of any powers but only the damage type inflicted, so don't be afraid of the nerf bat on this one. +2 hit +5 damage for all attacks is a bit strong for two feats.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeviomagy
CA every round isn't really that big a deal - it's rare for there to not be a way to get it: the only difference is with the combo that your part of the tactical game on the battlefield just got a lot easier and much less interesting, and you're making the battlefield a bit less dynamic and interesting.
Exactly. If anything is so good that it's a "gimme" for everyone, you know it's broken.
This combo needs to be house-ruled in a hurry.
I've told players that if they use this combo, they can expect ALL monsters to also use this combo.
All of them.
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Last edited by Nail: Today....just a few minutes ago
The fix is actually pretty simple. Make it so that changing the damage type of an attack doesn't change the keyword of the power. Remove inheritance for keywords of powers, but leave it as-is for damage-types. Then you still get the benefit of the feat with the frost weapon's daily power (it targets the monster) but the at-will does what it should and makes your damage frost damage. In conjunction with a fire damage attack it still makes the damage fire-frost damage (and really hard to resist). Things still work as intended.
Exactly. If anything is so good that it's a "gimme" for everyone, you know it's broken.
This combo needs to be house-ruled in a hurry.
I've told players that if they use this combo, they can expect ALL monsters to also use this combo.
All of them.
"Great, we all buy that Cold resisting armor. Thanks for the intel."
- - -
Seriously, it's a decent tactic, but it's NOT broken. Unlike Fire, there are no critters in the MM who are naturally vulnerable to Cold* -- but there are plenty who resist it. The cold-based Wizard at-will is easily the weakest. Cold damage is kinda teh suck in 4e, and Wintertouched + Lasting Frost make it interesting -- for Paragon tier.
As soon as Epic tier rolls around, Irresistible Flame comes on the scene, and Fire damage is king again.
Cheers, -- N
*) Except Magma Creatures, who have a funky, not-extra-damage type of vulnerability.
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Exactly. If anything is so good that it's a "gimme" for everyone, you know it's broken.
I pretty much said the exact opposite. Getting CA is NOT "so good it's broken" for a melee fighter. CA for a melee fighter itself is almost a gimme: you basically always have it unless you can't be bothered to get it. The same goes for a ranger or a rogue who wants to attack at range - with stealth and the new rules it's pretty easy for them to get CA when they want it.
Like I said before: The feat combo is better at it's intended use in powering up wizard cold spells than it is for the unintended ability to boost a melee combatant. It's certainly much better than any of the other elemental boosters. That might be just that the other elemental boosters don't have two-stage combos yet(I find it hard to believe that the fire one is going to have anything that might combo with it though).
This combo makes Wintertouched worth the feat slot, but I don't see the "amazing combo" here....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeviomagy
CA every round isn't really that big a deal ... It's the 5 extra damage per hit that is probably the more powerful aspect.
But the +5 damage is no combo at all! That's just what Lasting Frost does! A mage could do that with an at-will power without even investing in the weapon...
Anyway, it isn't a big deal. You have to hit twice in a row against the same target. You won't do that often enough to be broken or anything. Adding Wintertouched just puts an additional layer of bonus on if you manage to make the two hits, and it doesn't benefit you until your THIRD consecutive hit, by which point most non-elites are gonna be nearly dead anyway.
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