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Edit: But I agree with you, too. Riposte Strike isn't as useful if you're flanking with the Fighter.
Well, it's useful in that it's one more reason for the foe to not attack you. It's not useful in that it gives you more damage -- it's useful in that it keeps you safer than you otherwise would have been.
Cheers, -- N
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I am currently playing a rogue in my local game and, in my opinion, the drawback (if there is one) to Sly Flourish is that it is Vs AC, typically one of the better defenses. This means that it tends to hit less often and therefore offsets the slightly higher damage.
I'm not sure that the rogue in my campaign has ever missed, except for the one time he rolled a natural 1.
+5 dex, +3 proficiency (dagger atm), +1 dagger (for being a rogue), +1 magical, +1 level = +11 to hit at lvl 2. He picked up a feat as well, so when he has combat advantage (most of the time) that increases to +14.... before any buffs/debuffs.
Enemies at lvl 2 tend to have around 14-18 AC, so yeah...
I'm not sure I've seen riposte strike actually inflict extra damage on any creature yet in the ~4 sessions I've been grouped with someone who had it. So I deem it quite effective for controlling the monster into not attacking and quite unreliable for actually getting the rogue the extra attack.
What do the monsters do if the rogue is the only one in melee? Shift and charge? That shouldn't always be possible. Or do they just stand around and "skip" their turn, for fear of the riposte attack, that I assume your DM rules they know is coming?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nifft
Well, it's useful in that it's one more reason for the foe to not attack you. It's not useful in that it gives you more damage -- it's useful in that it keeps you safer than you otherwise would have been.
Cheers, -- N
Precisely. Between Defensive advantage + marking and Riposte Strike + Shadow Assassin Riposte, has a nice synergy when flanking with a fighter. Basically, the monster is SOL.
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Well, it's useful in that it's one more reason for the foe to not attack you. It's not useful in that it gives you more damage -- it's useful in that it keeps you safer than you otherwise would have been.
Cheers, -- N
Let's see if you still share the same sentiments with dance of death.
What do the monsters do if the rogue is the only one in melee? Shift and charge? That shouldn't always be possible. Or do they just stand around and "skip" their turn, for fear of the riposte attack, that I assume your DM rules they know is coming?
Never seen a rogue as the only person as an available target. Between shift and charge, shift and swing, and just swing at someone within reach, it either hasn't come up or the rogue has missed. Never seen a turn skipped for fear of riposte.
The way I've seen it ruled is that when you use an ability on a creature, it knows how that ability works against it. Abilities you don't use on it (like shadow riposte) it wouldn't know. So it knows that Cloud of Daggers continues to do damage, or that attacking will make you not riposte. Given that Riposte Strike is also considered a form of monster control by many people, that just makes it proactive. 'I stab the Minotaur for 17 damage, and my rapier is held out ready to riposte if it attacks me.'
I'm running a game with three strikers (an artful dodger, a brutal scoundrel, and a two-axe ranger). The brutal scoundrel does okay damage. The two-axe ranger loves playing swashbucklingly, and so he does pretty good damage and a lot of terrific stunts. The artful dodger uses sly flourish to do an appalling amount of damage. I've gotten used to it, but at first I thought she was fudging the dice rolls, it was so good.
Daniel
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I'm running a game with three strikers (an artful dodger, a brutal scoundrel, and a two-axe ranger). The brutal scoundrel does okay damage. The two-axe ranger loves playing swashbucklingly, and so he does pretty good damage and a lot of terrific stunts. The artful dodger uses sly flourish to do an appalling amount of damage. I've gotten used to it, but at first I thought she was fudging the dice rolls, it was so good.
Daniel
I think your brutal scoundrel is forgetting to add their STR mod to sneak attacks.
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So a cave bear's "Frenzy" attack would bypass the effect? That seems like a bit of a ripoff.
There are four types of attack - ranged, melee, close, and area.
Dance of Death allows you to alter an opponent's melee attacks. It doesn't allow you to alter an opponent's ranged, close, or area attacks.
A fighter can't use Power Attack with Sweeping Blow. Sweeping Blow is a close attack, and Power Attack applies to melee attacks. (Also, a fighter could use Sweeping Blow with a longbow if he wanted, though he wouldn't gain the special Str bonus.)
A ranger who rolls a critical with Spray of Arrows does not grant the Precise Hunter bonus to his allies; Spray of Arrows is a close attack, and Precise Hunter triggers off a critical with a ranged attack.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diirk
+5 dex, +3 proficiency (dagger atm), +1 dagger (for being a rogue), +1 magical, +1 level = +11 to hit at lvl 2. He picked up a feat as well, so when he has combat advantage (most of the time) that increases to +14.... before any buffs/debuffs.
The feat Nimble Blade? that'd be a +1 bonus, not +2.
And that +2 Dex-race rogue put an 18 into his Dex...which means he's deficient in things that don't involving hitting stuff. A beginning 18 (+ racial) hurts just about everyone except Wizards.....
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Last edited by Nail: Today....just a few minutes ago
The feat Nimble Blade? that'd be a +1 bonus, not +2.
He said +11 to +14 with combat advantage - so +2 from CA, +1 from NB.
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And that +2 Dex-race rogue put an 18 into his Dex...which means he's deficient in things that don't involving hitting stuff. A beginning 18 (+ racial) hurts just about everyone except Wizards.....
Honestly, I think rogues can get away with it just as well. In fact, I think I'd rather do it with a number of rogue builds more than any wizard builds I'd play.
And that +2 Dex-race rogue put an 18 into his Dex...which means he's deficient in things that don't involving hitting stuff. A beginning 18 (+ racial) hurts just about everyone except Wizards.....
Not sure what you expect from the rogue besides hitting stuff.
Dex influences to hit/damage/ac/reflex/initiative/rogue skills ... all important to the rogue.
He's better off than even the wizard taking that 18 imho.
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