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Wizards and their spellbooks - am I reading this correctly?
Quote:
PHB, page 143;Daily and Utility Spells: Your spellbook also holds your daily and utility spells. You begin knowing two daily spells, one of which you can use on any given day. Each time you gain a level that lets you select a daily spell or a utility spell, choose two different daily spells or utility spells of that level to add to your book. After an extended rest, you can prepare a number of daily and utility spells according to what you can cast per day for your level. You can’t prepare the same spell twice.
If you replace a spell because of gaining a level or through retraining, the previous spell vanishes from your spellbook and is replaced by the new spell.
If I am reading the correctly, this means that you don't prepare spells of specific levels, you just have a total number of daily and utility spell slots to fill, and you can choose to fill them with any of the daily or utility spells in your book, regardless of the level of the spells, as long as you only prepare each spell once.
It also means that when you replace a spell (due to retraining or the power replacement at lvls 13, 15, 17, 19, 23, 25, 27, and 29) only one of the two spells you gain is replaced. (i.e. when you gain lvl 15 and can swap a daily power, you gain one lvl 15 daily spell and lose one of your lower level daily spells, you don't gain two lvl 15 spells and lose 2 lower level spells. (or does it? I'm not totally sure I'm reading it right.)
So a lvl 16 wizard has 3 daily power slots and 5 utility power slots. The wizard also has 6 daily spells in his spellbook and 9 utility spells (because you don't an extra spell for your paragaon path utility power at lvl 12 - there is only one lvl 12 spell available to each paragon path).
He could prepare his lvl 15 daily power, and both his lvl 10 daily powers. Or his lvl 15 daily power, and both his lvl 5 daily powers, etc.
He could also prepare both his lvl 16 utility powers, his lvl 12 utility, and both his lvl 10 utility powers.
The spellbook effectively lets the wizard fill his daily/utility power slots with the highest level spells available to him, unlike other classes that are restricted to using 1 power of each level available to them.
Right?
Last edited by Caliban; 15th September 2008 at 01:16 AM..
Each spell level for dailies and utilities gives the wizard 2 choices to put in the book. You can only choose between the binary [or trinary if you have expanded spellbook] options.
I.e. you have to choose which of your pair of 1st level dailies, which of your pair of 5th level dailies, which of your pair of 2nd level utilities, which of your pair of 6th level utilities, etc. You can't choose to fill your 2 daily slots with the 2 different 5th level spells.
When you replace a power, you lose both [or all three] of the spells of the lower level, and choose the same number at the higher level. You can choose to "select down", basically deciding instead of picking a level 10 daily, you take one of the level 5s.
Last edited by WalterKovacs; 15th September 2008 at 12:59 AM..
nope.
Wizards are still limited like other classes, they just have a choice of which spell they can use to fill the 'slot'. You can put a lower level spell in a higher level slot, but not a Higher level spell in a lower level slot.
So, your 16th level Wizard has the following available
3 Daily powers, one level 15, one level 9, and one level 5
for these powers, he has 2 level 15 spells, 2 level 9 spells, and 2 level 5 spells in his spell book. Normally, you'd prep one 15th, one 9th and one 5th spell. But you could put a lower level spell in a higher spot if you wanted.
(note that all of these number represent the highest level you can use, as you can always choose a lower level daily spell)
Same goes for your 4 utility powers (16,10,6,2)
Then you have a Paragon Utility that is set and you can't change it out.
(I believe this is in the FAQ for the PHB or DMG, also, see the chart on page 143 of the DMG)
Each spell level for dailies and utilities gives the wizard 2 choices to put in the book. You can only choose between the binary [or trinary if you have expanded spellbook] options.
I.e. you have to choose which of your pair of 1st level dailies, which of your pair of 5th level dailies, which of your pair of 2nd level utilities, which of your pair of 6th level utilities, etc. You can't choose to fill your 2 daily slots with the 2 different 5th level spells.
That's what I thought at first, until I took a closer look at the text I quoted in the original post. The text I quoted doesn't state that anywhere. Which is kind of my point.
Quote:
When you replace a power, you lose both [or all three] of the spells of the lower level, and choose the same number at the higher level. You can choose to "select down", basically deciding instead of picking a level 10 daily, you take one of the level 5s.
Except that's not what the section I quoted states. If there is a rule that states that limitation in the book, I haven't found it.
nope.
Wizards are still limited like other classes, they just have a choice of which spell they can use to fill the 'slot'. You can put a lower level spell in a higher level slot, but not a Higher level spell in a lower level slot.
The text I quoted seems to remove that limitation. Can you point me to a rule that says otherwise?
The chart on page 143 of the DMG is a general chart, the specific rules for a wizards spellbook would override it.
The chart on page 143 of the DMG is a general chart, the specific rules for a wizards spellbook would override it.
But the specific rules for a wizard's spellbook are that "you can prepare a number of daily and utility spells according to what you can cast per day for your level".
What daily and utility powers can a character of level 15 use? Per DMG p143, one 15th, 9th, and 5th level Daily, and one 10th, 6th, and 2nd Utility. So the wizard can prepare a number of daily and utility spells, and they correspond to the daily and utility powers he can use each day for his level - one 15th, 9th, and 5th level Daily, and one 10th, 6th, and 2nd Utility.
(I think there are two ways of reading the "you can prepare" line:
1. You can prepare a number of spells according to X. What is dependent on X? The number.
2. You can prepare a number of spells according to X. What is dependent on X? The spells. (Of which you can prepare a number)
Reading 1 means that the levels of the spells are independent of X; all X tells us is how many we can prepare. But the FAQ and game balance both discredit this reading, pointing us instead to reading 2 - the spells themselves are limited by X, not just how many we can prepare.)
For what it's worth, the PHB FAQ has these answers:
How does retraining and multiclassing work with the spellbook?
If you retrain a daily or utility power you only retrain one of your two choices for that level, if you choose a lower level power while retraining it still occupies the same level. If you swap a power with a power from a different class through multiclassing you replace both spell choices with the new power. If you are replacing spells as you gain a level, like at 15th level when you replace a daily power, you replace the spells from one level with an equal number of spells from the new level.
Can a 5th level wizard memorize two 5th level daily spells instead of a 1st and a 5th level daily spell?
At the end of each long rest, a wizard prepares one 1st-level Daily spell chosen from the list of 1st level daily spells in her spellbook. If she were at least 2nd level, she would also prepare one 2nd-level utility spell chosen from the list of 2nd-level utility spells in her spellbook. At 5th level she would also prepare one 5th-level daily spell from her list of 5th-level daily spells in her spellbook. She would repeat this process for every level that she has access to wizard daily or utility spells. She could not, as a 5th-level wizard, prepare a second 5th-level daily spell in place of a daily spell of a different level.
-Hyp.
Last edited by Hypersmurf; 15th September 2008 at 01:22 AM..
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