Standing up from prone

[Nikosandros]

You can stand up as a move action. if your square is occupied, then you can also shift to adjacent square.

This leads to situations in which it is convenient to have someone in your square. I'm thinking about letting characters shift in any case... thoughts?

[Brain]

I like it. It allows the PCs to stand over their allies protectively and allow them to get up behind the protector.

[keterys]

If you justify it as the person lending a helping hand (or hip), it may be less bothersome.

[ValhallaGH]

Originally Posted by Nikosandros

You can stand up as a move action. if your square is occupied, then you can also shift to adjacent square.

This leads to situations in which it is convenient to have someone in your square. I'm thinking about letting characters shift in any case... thoughts?

It negates the movement restriction that being knocked prone is supposed to provide. Allowing critters to shift when standing up in an otherwise empty square makes prone-inducing powers even less effective than they already were.

Whether that's a good or bad thing for your games is up to you to decide. Either way, good luck.

[Nikosandros]

Originally Posted by keterys

If you justify it as the person lending a helping hand (or hip), it may be less bothersome.

That person could also be an enemy...

[Nikosandros]

Originally Posted by ValhallaGH

It negates the movement restriction that being knocked prone is supposed to provide.

But why should this restriction be negated by an enemy occupying your own space?

[keterys]

Originally Posted by Nikosandros

That person could also be an enemy...

Rarely - enemies can only stand on a person's square if they're helpless. So, yes, if someone is knocked unconscious then brought back up by healing, they can shift on stand.

[Nikosandros]

Originally Posted by keterys

Rarely - enemies can only stand on a person's square if they're helpless.

Right. I was mixing it with the fact that you can stop in a prone ally square.

Originally Posted by keterys

So, yes, if someone is knocked unconscious then brought back up by healing, they can shift on stand.

Which is still weird, but rather uncommon.

Would preventing the character from standing up be too much in this case? The prone character would have to expend two move actions, one for shifting away and the other to stand up... but perhaps it would be too harsh.

[ValhallaGH]

You can't shift while prone. According to the errata “You can’t move from your space, although you can teleport, crawl, or be forced to move by a pull, a push, or a slide.”

[Kordeth]

Originally Posted by ValhallaGH

You can't shift while prone. According to the errata “You can’t move from your space, although you can teleport, crawl, or be forced to move by a pull, a push, or a slide.”

Errata or not, I'm inclined to let you spend a move action to move (not shift) one square while prone, so you can try to roll out of the way of a monster's attack or the like.

[keterys]

You can move half your speed - see crawl.

[Kordeth]

Originally Posted by keterys

You can move half your speed - see crawl.

D'oh, you're right. Forgot about crawl. This is what I get for posting without the book before my coffee has kicked in.

[darkadelphia]

Originally Posted by Kordeth

Errata or not, I'm inclined to let you spend a move action to move (not shift) one square while prone, so you can try to roll out of the way of a monster's attack or the like.

As noted above, this is allowed under the crawl mechanic. However, keep in mind that crawling provokes OAs. This would significantly increase the power of the prone condition.

[Sphyre]

Originally Posted by Nikosandros

This leads to situations in which it is convenient to have someone in your square. I'm thinking about letting characters shift in any case... thoughts?

Knocking someone prone serves two purposes:

1. Gaining combat advantage and other combat related benefits (like -2 to hit with melee for the target)
2. Consuming the target's move action to get up, therefor limiting possible movement.

Allowing a shift when you get up on all getting up would step on the second function's toes. I wouldn't implement it unless you want to weaken the prone condition. Being as it's such an easy condition to remove (simply spend a move action) I'm not inclined to nerf it.

[Nikosandros]

Originally Posted by Sphyre

Consuming the target's move action to get up, therefor limiting possible movement.

Yet, as we where discussing, this limitation of movement is negated by the presence of an ally or an enemy in the target square.

It has been suggested that an ally could help you stand, which I guess is more or less plausible.

With an enemy the situation is patently absurd and the only consolation is that it's an unlikely situation.

[Sphyre]

Originally Posted by Nikosandros

Yet, as we where discussing, this limitation of movement is negated by the presence of an ally or an enemy in the target square.

It's a rule that helps adjudicate where you are when someone is in your square. Since they can be in your square when you're prone, if you get up, you both can't be standing in that square. Therefor the rule for a free shift to make sure there's no inconsistency of being in the same spot.

If your ally wants to take the time to get into your square to allow you to shift, then that's a strategy to allow you a free shift, at the cost of their having to position themselves there. It cost something to give you that shift, even if it was small.

It changes the following scenario (Assuming you have the same speed as the enemy):

The last conscious enemy tries to get away. In an effect to slow the enemy down, you knock him prone. On his turn, he uses a move action to get up, and a move action to move his speed and provokes an opportunity attack. Your turn comes around again and you use a move action to get back up to him, and can spend a standard action to do what you need to him.

With a free shift:

The last conscious enemy tries to get away. In an effect to slow the enemy down, you knock him prone. On his turn, he uses a move action to get up and shift farther away from you and move his speed away from you. Given that the target is your speed +1 away, you have to spend both your move action and a charge to reach the target instead of having a choice is standard actions.

That's not the only scenario it changes, but it's an example of how it nerfs the prone condition. If that's what you want to do, go ahead. But you asked what my thoughts were. My thoughts are that it nerfs the prone condition and the only reason why you should change it is if you willfully want to nerf the prone condition.

[MarkB]

One alternative would be to allow a character to move (not shift) up to one square when standing from prone, and to require that move when standing up in an occupied square.

This would make Prone more powerful in the fairly unusual circumstance of standing up in an occupied square, as you would provoke OAs, but make it weaker if there are no adjacent enemies when you stand up, as you can get in a square of movement at the same time.

[Nikosandros]

Originally Posted by Sphyre

It's a rule that helps adjudicate where you are when someone is in your square.

Yes, I understand the rule and why it is there... as I already wrote several times, I have a slight problem with it. On the other hand, the situation is uncommon, so it's not a big deal.

[Nikosandros]

Originally Posted by MarkB

This would make Prone more powerful in the fairly unusual circumstance of standing up in an occupied square, as you would provoke OAs, but make it weaker if there are no adjacent enemies when you stand up, as you can get in a square of movement at the same time.

One alternative, could be to deny a prone character the chance to stand up when an enemy is occupying his square. It make the condition more dangerous, but it doesn't happen very often.

[Danceofmasks]

It could also be hilarious to walk over to a prone ally, then lie down next (in the same square) to him.
Next monster does the same thing.

PCs open a 5'x5' broom closet to find 1000 kobolds sleeping together.