Two Misc/obscure 4e rules questions

[brehobit]

OK, some obscure corner-case questions.

1. It appears as if you can't "swap out" a paragon class power when you level up. Can you swap it out with one of the power-swap feats?
2. In Force the Battle (Fighter Attack 29) is this one of the rare (only?) cases where 1[W] means just 1[W] and you don't add in weapon or feat damage bonuses? (It allows you to deal an extra 1[W] damage with your at-will and encounter fighter powers.) I'm not sure of RAW or RAI here.

[jaelis]

1. pg 209: "You can't use power-swap feats to replace powers you gain from your paragon path or epic destiny."

2. Almost always the extra [w] will be an addition to a damage roll you are already making. So you already got to add your damage bonuses; you don't get them a second time.

I'm not sure about a case like Cleave or Reaping Strike, where you can do damage without a roll. As written, I think you would add 1[w] to the damage in such cases, and therefore you'd get your bonuses too.

[Ulorian]

Originally Posted by jaelis

1. pg 209: "You can't use power-swap feats to replace powers you gain from your paragon path or epic destiny."

That's not relevant. That line is specifically talking about what you can/can't do with the multi-class power swap feats. As far as I know, there is no specific rule preventing this (unless there's errata I don't know about?). I personally wouldn't allow it, but that's me.

[Belphanior]

Originally Posted by Ulorian

That's not relevant. That line is specifically talking about what you can/can't do with the multi-class power swap feats. As far as I know, there is no specific rule preventing this (unless there's errata I don't know about?). I personally wouldn't allow it, but that's me.

How is it not relevant? The question was specifically about power-swap feats. The answer is specifically about power-swap feats. So what's the problem?

[EldritchFire]

Originally Posted by brehobit

OK, some obscure corner-case questions.

1. It appears as if you can't "swap out" a paragon class power when you level up. Can you swap it out with one of the power-swap feats?
2. In Force the Battle (Fighter Attack 29) is this one of the rare (only?) cases where 1[W] means just 1[W] and you don't add in weapon or feat damage bonuses? (It allows you to deal an extra 1[W] damage with your at-will and encounter fighter powers.) I'm not sure of RAW or RAI here.

1. Paragon path powers are not class powers, and therefore are not eligible for swapping out at high levels.

2. You get what you get. It says you deal an extra 1[W]. So your longsword, for instance, deals an extra 1d8 damage. Also, 1[W] ALWAYS means 1[W]. Look at sure strike, page 177, careful attack and twin strike on page 105. Lots of powers say 1[W] and MEAN 1[W].

-EF

[Ulorian]

Originally Posted by Belphanior

How is it not relevant? The question was specifically about power-swap feats. The answer is specifically about power-swap feats. So what's the problem?

Oops, I missed the second line of the OP's first question; I was actually addressing the first line only.

[KarinsDad]

Originally Posted by EldritchFire

2. You get what you get. It says you deal an extra 1[W]. So your longsword, for instance, deals an extra 1d8 damage. Also, 1[W] ALWAYS means 1[W]. Look at sure strike, page 177, careful attack and twin strike on page 105. Lots of powers say 1[W] and MEAN 1[W].

Actually, this is true, but not for this reason.

The reason one only gets an additional D8 is that the other bonuses do not stack. The enhancement bonus for the weapon only applies once because the second enhancement bonus for the weapon does not stack with the first enhancement bonuse for the weapon.

Ditto for feats and everything else.

Sure Strike, Careful Attack and Twin Strike still get feat and enhancement bonuses.

[MrMyth]

Originally Posted by brehobit

In Force the Battle (Fighter Attack 29) is this one of the rare (only?) cases where 1[W] means just 1[W] and you don't add in weapon or feat damage bonuses? (It allows you to deal an extra 1[W] damage with your at-will and encounter fighter powers.) I'm not sure of RAW or RAI here.

Ok, here is my thought process on this:

1) You add damage bonuses to damage rolls. Thus, even a power that does 1[W] and doesn't add your Strength Modifier still recieves all other bonuses - it is a damage roll. This can even include stances that deal automatic 1[W] damage without needing to roll an attack.
2) Is this new 1[W] from Force the Battle a damage roll? No, actually - it is an increase to an already existing damage roll. Thus, that original roll gets your damage bonuses, but this does not add (1[W] plus bonuses) - it only adds 1[W].

The same holds true for several similar powers. Look at Lion of Battle (Pit Fighter Level 20) - it deals 4[W]+Str, but gains an extra +2[W] if the target is bloodied. That extra +2[W] is not a seperate damage roll, but a modifier to the original roll. You certainly wouldn't apply damage bonuses twice to this attack - and Force the Battle is the same thing, except that it is one power giving a bonus to other powers, thus the application isn't as initially obvious.