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D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
The PHB says : every two encounter, you reach a milestone.
So the question is : does skill challenge normally count toward a milestone ?
Every two encounters.
Encounters (PHB p258-259) include Combat Encounters and Non-Combat Encounters. Non-Combat Encounters "include dealing with traps and hazards, solving puzzles, and a broad category of situations called skill challenges."
DMG p120 includes Non-Combat Encounters in its discussions of rewards.
If you've completed two encounters without an extended rest - whether they're combat or non-combat, whether they're traps and hazards, solving puzzles, skill challenges, or killing a bunch of orcs - you reach a milestone.
APs can be used during skill challenges potentially, too. Same with healing surges, some powers, etc.
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You can use APs in any encounter to get an extra action. This is useful in any timed skill challenges (or any in which you have a limited number of rounds, like a Stalker style one), and potentially useful in any that have no failure number depending on the setup. Many skill challenges cost surges - in fact I've seen a skill challenge that cost a skill challenge for every single failure, plus an extra 2 if you bombed out the entire thing. Players can use combat powers potentially in skill challenges up to whatever limit the DM imposes, but I know DMs that will allow expenditure of a daily to greatly assist a skill challenge. Finally, daily utility powers that help with skills are obviously expended by a skill challenge.
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But skill challenges (not tied to a trap or inside a combat) don't get to expand has many ressources as a combat encounter, ergo the benefit of winning the challenge can't be as rewarding, no?
But skill challenges (not tied to a trap or inside a combat) don't get to expand has many ressources as a combat encounter, ergo the benefit of winning the challenge can't be as rewarding, no?
They might not be worth as many XP, or result in treasure, for example (depending on how the DM has designed the encounters). But they are still a non-combat encounter, which means they are an encounter, which means they count towards the "two encounters without an extended rest" requirement of a milestone.
There is no doubt that a skill challenge is an encounter and would normally count towards a milestone. However, if the skill challenge is trivial, then like a trivial combat encounter the DM is under no obligation to count it as progress towards a milestone. If the complexity of the skill challenge is lowered enough to make it two to three levels below the level of the party, then the skill challenge is too easy, and like a too easy combat encounter also, IMO, fails to qualify towards a milestone.
If the skill challenge is excessively easy, it may not be eligible for milestoning, same as excessively easy combats. Of course, if it's extremely hard, it may count as a milestone all on its own.
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In my games, I count skill challenges as an encounter, but only for the party members that participate. So, if a party member opts out of a challenge, they are effectively giving up half an action point. I make this clear to my players as a way of rewarding full participation in skill challenges.
In theory the same is true of combats, but my players never opt out of fights.
In my games, I count skill challenges as an encounter, but only for the party members that participate. So, if a party member opts out of a challenge, they are effectively giving up half an action point. I make this clear to my players as a way of rewarding full participation in skill challenges.
In theory the same is true of combats, but my players never opt out of fights.
In a fight, everyone has a chance to contribute usefully to the success of the outcome.
In a skill challenge, unless you open it out completely so that practically any skill can apply, there are likely to be characters whose skill set is ill-suited to the challenge.
By participating, such characters actually make the party more likely to fail, so you are facing your players with a choice between taking actions that will actually make the party worse off, or forfeiting their action points.
If you want full participation in skill challenges, the way to do it is to ensure that each challenge has something useful for every PC to do - not to punish players for non-participation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverwave
But skill challenges (not tied to a trap or inside a combat) don't get to expand has many ressources as a combat encounter, ergo the benefit of winning the challenge can't be as rewarding, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypersmurf
They might not be worth as many XP, or result in treasure, for example (depending on how the DM has designed the encounters). But they are still a non-combat encounter, which means they are an encounter, which means they count towards the "two encounters without an extended rest" requirement of a milestone.
-Hyp.
That's true if the skill challenge is about the same level as the PCs (-1 level to +3 level). But if it's not:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMG p 123
You’re well within your rights to tell the players that an encounter doesn’t count toward a milestone. An encounter that’s two or more levels lower than the characters is really easy, and it shouldn’t contribute toward a milestone.
So....some skill challenges are not "worth milestones", just as some combat encounters are not worth milestones.
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Of course if a skill challenge is so easy as to not be worth a milestone, the DM should probably be asking himself why he's bothering to play it out as a challenge in the first place. Just allow the PCs to roleplay/narrate their way to success and move on.
The PHB says : every two encounter, you reach a milestone.
So the question is : does skill challenge normally count toward a milestone ?
The Living Forgotten Realms guidelines are: If they earn experience from it then it counts for the purpose of Milestones.
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Of course if a skill challenge is so easy as to not be worth a milestone, the DM should probably be asking himself why he's bothering to play it out as a challenge in the first place. Just allow the PCs to roleplay/narrate their way to success and move on.
Or just make it a single die roll, if they want it to be random for some reason. But otherwise, this is a good point.
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