It allows you to search the
messageboards, send and receive private messages, give yourself a
custom usertitle, turn ads on or off, create a custom style for your
profile, get a nifty badge under your username, and gives you a special
warm glowy feeling! Oh, and it gets rid of this annoying message, too!
D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
I'm thinking of ruling that switching hands (moving a small object from one hand to the other) is a Free Action. This is risky, however, so I want your advice.
The item in question is a dagger. The idea is that by holding two daggers, you can throw the first and later draw the one in your off-hand as a free-action, instead of the minor-action it takes to draw it from the scabbard. If you're wondering why the character doesn't just throw the dagger with the other hand - that's because a shield (bracer? forgot the name for that tiny shield) is attached to it, so he can't attack with the weapon held by that hand.
This will basically allow the character to draw a dagger as a free action once per encounter, or something like that. Not a major thing, but stepping on the Quick Draw feat slightly.
Opinions?
__________________ Want to see some interesting spells? A great magic system in action?
Visit The Net Wizard's Grimoire wiki for a host of great Ars Magica spells!
Sounds fine to me. The FAQ says that changing how many hands you're holding a versatile weapon with is a free action, so grabbing a dagger with two hands should also be free, as would letting go with one of them. So perhaps technically it would be two free actions, but I don't know of a circumstance where that would matter.
That last FAQ entry looks fairly recent. Good thing, it answers one of the questions I had about the swordmage.
But I don't think it is needed for the dagger. There are several work-arounds for this already in the game. Quick draw which is supposed to cover this, as you noted. But also, magic daggers automagicaly come back into the hand of whoever threw after an attack, completely bypassing both quick draw and the need to hold a second dagger.
It is either a feat (that can be retrained later I might add) or 360g to get rid of the minor action to draw. If they plan on using daggers to any significant extent, they are going to eventually have a magic dagger anyway.
__________________ If "A" is broken, that isn't a valid reason for "B" to be so, even if they vary in degree.
Tactician style Gamer, or so I have been told.
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."-Albert Einstein
Starfox was probably referring to PHB 217: "Load: .... If a power allows you to hit multiple targets, the additional load time is accounted for in the power."
This actually doesn't apply to thrown weapons by RAW, but I allow it to apply. To me, there's little difference between loading and firing a crossbow nine times in six seconds and drawing and throwing 9 knives in six seconds. In fact, if we went hyper-realistic, crossbow users would be screwed.
Edit: Then again, on the same page, "Light Thrown: ...but some powers let you hurl several of
them at once or in rapid succession." This seems to point out that they intended to let this apply to thrown weapons. Otherwise, Quickdraw becomes a "feat tax" to use those powers (such as Blinding Barrage, Rogue 1), which is one of those "taboo design" things.
Last edited by Dalzig; 8th October 2008 at 09:25 PM..
Edit: Then again, on the same page, "Light Thrown: ...but some powers let you hurl several of
them at once or in rapid succession." This seems to point out that they intended to let this apply to thrown weapons. Otherwise, Quickdraw becomes a "feat tax" to use those powers (such as Blinding Barrage, Rogue 1), which is one of those "taboo design" things.
The Load quote certainly doesn't apply to thrown weapons, since they don't have a Load quality; you might be able to stretch the "hurl several in rapid succession" quote into a rule letting you draw them as a free action, though it requires a fair bit of inference and wishful thinking, especially since none of the powers actually say they let you draw extra thrown weapons as a free action.
And it would still only apply when using a power that has multiple targets, and (unless they're magic weapons) you throw all the weapons you draw... so you still end up with an empty hand, and no rule saying you can draw as a free action to replace the last one you threw...
Thanks you all, I'll rule it a free action based on all the above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nail
How about switching a wand from your (light) shield hand to your free hand? A free action?
Yes, I'd rule that it is.
__________________ Want to see some interesting spells? A great magic system in action?
Visit The Net Wizard's Grimoire wiki for a host of great Ars Magica spells!
The 4e light shield is the sort that allows you to hold, but not use, an item in your shield hand. (In 3e there was also a buckler that let you hold & wield a weapon in the same hand, it's gone in 4e).
I don't think switching hands is a big issue. In fact, I think it's more a matter of having a hand available for what you want to do. If you're holding a weapon and wearing a light shield, you have one hand available to hold (but not use) a second weapon. If you're holding a weapon in each hand & wearing a light shield, you have no hands available for other things, but you can wield the weapon in the non-shield hand. If you throw that weapon, you now have a hand available. If you want to wield the other weapon, you can, because it's a one-handed weapon, and you have one hand available for weilding weapons. Since you're now wielding it one-handed, the shield hand is no longer required to 'hold' it, so you now have a hand free for holding-but-not-wielding.
That's a long winded way of saying what's I'm guessing is really meant to be very simple: you don't have to worry about which hand you're using to do something, just whether you have a hand available to do it.
Once the character gets a magic dagger, he/she can throw it, and it will return before the next throw or strike (if any). So, no need for drawing an additional dagger or switching hands with it. Judging it to be a free action seems fair to me.
Once the character gets a magic dagger, he/she can throw it, and it will return before the next throw or strike (if any).
Assuming he's making ranged attacks.
Any magic light thrown or heavy thrown weapon, from the lowly +1 shuriken to a +6 perfect hunter’s spear, automatically returns to its wielder’s hand after a ranged attack with the weapon is resolved.
The rogue with one magic dagger for Blinding Barrage (a close attack, not a ranged attack) is technically out of luck.
The rogue with one magic dagger for Blinding Barrage (a close attack, not a ranged attack) is technically out of luck.
That's covered under the FAQ too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAQ
14. I am using a magical thrown weapon as part of an area of effect power. If I am attacking multiple enemies within that area, do I need multiple weapons, or will one suffice?
One is enough in this case. Magical thrown weapons return to you after each attack, so you’ll be able to use it against each enemy as part of using your power.
This works because close powers create an area of effect. (page 52 phb)
But what the FAQ says ("Magical thrown weapons return to you after each attack") is not what the PHB says ("returns to its wielder’s hand after a ranged attack").
It looks like the person writing the FAQ made an assumption based on faulty memory without checking the rule.
If an FAQ answer said something like "Many of the rogue's powers require a light blade, such as a rapier, shortsword, or scimitar", would that make the scimitar a light blade? Or would it indicate that the person writing the answer had misremembered what group scimitars fall into?
It looks like the person writing the FAQ made an assumption based on faulty memory without checking the rule.
Or maybe the person writing the FAQ answered thinking about how the rule was supposed to be written instead of the way it is in the PHB where they forgot to include area attacks. I guess we'll have to wait for either an errata to the PHB or to the FAQ.
Any magic light thrown or heavy thrown weapon, from the lowly +1 shuriken to a +6 perfect hunter’s spear, automatically returns to its wielder’s hand after a ranged attack with the weapon is resolved.
The rogue with one magic dagger for Blinding Barrage (a close attack, not a ranged attack) is technically out of luck.
-Hyp.
The guy is planning of using two Daily-power daggers. He throws one, and then the other on the next rounds, using both Daily effects in the same encounter, while keeping his Minor actions available for other uses . At least, he wants to have this as an option.
__________________ Want to see some interesting spells? A great magic system in action?
Visit The Net Wizard's Grimoire wiki for a host of great Ars Magica spells!
I don't think switching hands would be a free action.
PH 267, Minor Action "...pulling an item from a pouch or a sheath, ...picking up an item
in your space or in an unoccupied square within reach."
PH 267, Free Action "...dropping a held item, letting go of a grabbed enemy."
I would argue that tossing the weapon from one hand to the other always takes time in the movies and could be a little tricky to pull off. I would also argue that taking an item, any item, from your hand requires about the same effort as picking that item off a table your standing right next to. I would also argue that a samurai type guy could draw his sword from his sheathe and attack faster than you can switch the mouse to your other hand and click reply.
Dropping an item is a free action, so letting go of the item in your left hand is free action and picking up an item is a minor action, so taking the item with your right hand would be a minor action.
The references to thrown weapons, ammunition and magic versions on this post are all incomplete. Look each one up yourself and as a whole, there doesn't appear to be any discrepencies nor do they suggest that switching hands needs to be a free action.
I was referred to this post by Tony Vargas, who in our game wants to walk around the dungeon with a light shield and long sword in one hand and a javelin in the other. Then after throwing the javelin, ready the long sword as a free action. I don't believe that should be a free action.
Linear Mode
