Throwning weapons

[Minigiant]

I have a few questions of throwing weapons.

1) Can I attack with any one handed weapon as an improvised ranged weapon? It says improvised weapons are anything I happen to pick up. I have my Battle Axe in my hand and I want to chuck it that orc over there.

2) If I attack with a magic weapon as an improvised ranged weapon, does it return back to me after the attack?

3) If I attack with a magic weapon as an improvised ranged weapon, does it gain the weapon's enchantment, bonus damage to critical hit, and magic properities?


I'd say yes to all three but I'd only allow the magic properties to carry over for magic enhancement that allow any catergory or weapon.

[Hypersmurf]

Originally Posted by Minigiant

1) Can I attack with any one handed weapon as an improvised ranged weapon? It says improvised weapons are anything I happen to pick up. I have my Battle Axe in my hand and I want to chuck it that orc over there.

Sure, but it deals d4 damage and has no proficiency bonus.

2) If I attack with a magic weapon as an improvised ranged weapon, does it return back to me after the attack?

I'd say no, myself. It's not a magic thrown weapon; it's a magic weapon that you are throwing, despite it not being designed for that.

3) If I attack with a magic weapon as an improvised ranged weapon, does it gain the weapon's enchantment, bonus damage to critical hit, and magic properities?

Again, I'd probably say no - you're not throwing a magic battleaxe, you're throwing a magic-battleaxe-shaped lump of metal.

-Hyp.

[Minigiant]

AS I read, I see that the returning propery only applies to light thrown and heavy thrown weapons and improvised weapon have no properties by RAW.

As for the enhancement and other stuff, the RAW isn't clear. The catergory tells which weapon group can be enchanted. So the real questions are...

If you use a weapon as an improvise weapon, is it still in the previous weapon group?

Is a magic weapon enhancement with the "Any" catergory allowed or active on a weapon with no weapon group?

[James McMurray]

I'd say that the thrown battle axe neither returns nor gains any of its bonuses. If you're looking for a throwable melee weapon there are lots of them that are balanced with that factor in mind.

[ValhallaGH]

Hypersmurf is correct.

1) Yes, as an Improvised Ranged Weapon (d4 damage, etc).

2) No.

3) No.

[Minigiant]

I have soome more questions

4) If I use the flaming at will power to convert my weapon to fire damage then use it as a improvised ranged weapon, does it deal fire damage?

5) Can I enhance an improvised weapon (+3 frost mug)?

6) Can I enhance a magic item with a weapon enhancement as an improvised weapon?

[ValhallaGH]

4) Yes. Unless your DM says no, it should be.

5) No. Improvised weapons cannot be enhanced as weapons because that is not their primary function. You could make a +3 frost mug; it would keep your beverages cold and tasty in the hotest of environments, and be difficult to dispell. It would not give a bonus to attack or damage (though an amused DM might let it deal cold damage).

6) No, because you can't buy such an item and that's all the Enchant Magic Item ritual allows you to create. A very generous DM (or one who expects to capture your party a lot) might allow it for "Weapon: Any" enhancements but even that's a stretch.

[Crazydwarf]

Unfortunatly RAW forbids throwing melee weapons that do not have the heavy/light thrown property. Except in one instance...The Katar

Why is this ?
Because improvised thrown weapons weigh 1 lb.
ALL weapons either weigh more or have the heavy/light thrown property attatched to them.
Although one could argue that the 1 lb. Limit is simply an approximation.

That said...The cool factor would make me allow it as a DM and appoint houserules as I see fit.

[Minigiant]

The Enchant Item ritual says just it turns a normal item into a magic item of you level or lower (PHB 304). So there is where the tule disallowing enchanting a magic weapon as an inprovised weapon

But I still don't see where it says I can't turn a comb (normal improvised weapon) into a +1 magic comb (magic impovised weapon).

The only restrictions I see are:
The item must be a normal item before enhancement (PHB 304)
The item must be the correct catergory (225)
The item must the correct size and weight to be wielded as a weapon (219)

If so the item can be enhanced as a magic weapon and you may add it's enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, use it's powers, and benefit from it's magic properties (232).

Just in case a future DM use one of those "take your weapons and armor" hook, I can still carry a resounding magic item to fight with for cheap.

[Saeviomagy]

I'd have no problem allowing someone to enchant a non-weapon item, and gaining the bonus on their improvised weapon attacks.

It'd probably even return.

If someone really wants to go out of their way to use a 1d4, 0 proficiency bonus weapon, more power to them. I'd point out that it's a really stupid thing to do though.

Incidentally - a dynamic +3 beer mug would be an awesome item to own.

[ValhallaGH]

If you found your own answers then why are you asking here?

[Tony Vargas]

Originally Posted by Minigiant

If I attack with a magic weapon as an improvised ranged weapon, does it gain the weapon's enchantment, bonus damage to critical hit, and magic properities?

The 'Enhancement' section under magic items says that weapons add thier enhancement to attack and damage rolls when you use powers delivered through the weapon. And the powers section says enhancement bonuses aply to attack & damage rolls when the power has the weapon keyword. Ranged Basic Attack is a power with the weapon keyword.

Some weapon properties may be meaningful only in melee, others might be reasonable to allow.


I could see ruling against on both counts. The weapon isn't being used as it's meant to be used, so it's not a weapon, at all - it's normal proficieny, damage, and other properties aren't aplying, afterall. Alternately, a DM could be more generous, and allow a weapon to be thrown 'improvised' (meaning no proficiency bonus) but otherwise still function as a weapon of it's type (damage, enhancemnt, properties, etc).

[D.Shaffer]

I'd see no problem with taking a +3 Frost Club and flavor texting it as a beer stein if someone REALLY wanted a +3 Frosty Beer Mug.

[Larrin]

The biggest problem with throwing a great axe is how badly it fails to qualify as a improvised ranged weapon due to its weight. I'd say a battle axe (6lbs) is basically the next size up of throwable objects. 1d6 damage, range 2/4, use str and two hands to heave it. It does not return, but it does give the enhancement bonus. Its a weapon, used as a weapon (albeit improvised), in a weapon keyword power, it gets the enhancement (but obviously not the prof. bonus). A +3 battleaxe should be a better thing to throw than a mundane one, but its still a lousy choice. Of course this is only if you let heavier than 1lb be thrown.

If you can enchant a stick of wood for a +1 club, you can enchant anything you want to be more effective at fighting. You can have a +1 chair. You're being silly, and probably not very effective, but the rules let you enchant weapons, and improvised weapons are weapons. You won't buy them in any store, because its not a great idea to spend 6000 gold on a chair, but thats not really a rules reason for forbidding it. I haven't found the rules to say improvised weapons don't count as weapons for any purpose, certainly not with regards to enchanting.

Bottom line: I feel improvised weapons are weapons, and should receive all benefits (enhancement bonuses, enchantability, etc) unless expressly said not to in the rules.