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D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
OK, so I'm making very slow progress with the two groups that I'm running... we are still at the beginning of the first dungeon level...
I haven't made a list of all the treasures available in the adventure, but I have the impression that PC earn less stuff that what they are supposed to according to the DMG. Is this actually the case?
I thought this was true too, but I went through and matched it up to the treasure bundles at each level (since I wanted to change the items so they actually matched up with what my players wanted) and it does match up (at least the items, i didn't look to closely at the gold, but there are a few big ticket items that should balance things out). If you have 6 or more players though, you should look in the DMG for guidelines for adding more loot, because the adventure is balanced for 5, and 6 players would definitely be earning less loot.
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It matches the quantity, but is a bit low on the levels (as is H2)...
Well, the level of the items is very important. You wouldn't want a 5th level party, armed just with a bunch of 1st and 2nd level items...
Hopefully, I'll find the time to make a full list for myself. So far, I'm pretty sure that there isn't enough loot, but maybe this is compensated later in the adventure.
Having played through H1 and H2, I definitely noticed that it felt like treasure was rather light. I'm preparing to run H3, and looked through it, and it was way behind on bundles (having basically 4 levels worth of xp, but only 3 levels worth of bundles.)
Yeah we are currently nearing the end of H2 and it pretty much is lite on treasure. For a 5 person party they are seeming to make the challenges a mite bit on the high side and giving rewards on the low side. The seem to have the singular high end items of appripriate strength but have too few of them.
As well I am not sure if this is how 4rth is going but throwing in high level non-combat items sorta blows(hey heres this L5 bag of holding have a nice time fighting the L8 elite at the end with no magic weapon Mr 3rd level Cleric).
This is further augmented as H1 has a some errors in stat blocks unless these errors are meant to be there(I thought due to the mod being out during playtesting a few creeped in). Luckily for us we had a TPK in H2 so the judge allowed for us to come in later with appropriate starting equipment.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikosandros
Hopefully, I'll find the time to make a full list for myself. So far, I'm pretty sure that there isn't enough loot, but maybe this is compensated later in the adventure.
I have the full list, if you are interested. I also have all of the magic items from KotS as printed "cards", so I can physically hand them to the players - I could give you that file (pdf) as well.
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Last edited by Nail: Today....just a few minutes ago
I have the full list, if you are interested. I also have all of the magic items from KotS as printed "cards", so I can physically hand them to the players - I could give you that file (pdf) as well.
We are still very early in the adventure, not even 2nd level yet. I thought magic items were not supposed to be such " must have" items in 4E?
Yes... and no. You generally want to have appropriate level weapons/implements, armor and neck items to keep your attacks and defenses at the right spot for your level.
But in general, most items are there to give you cool things to do, but not to be what defines your character and lets them overcome all obstacles.
My own group is just about to finish H2 and has fallen quite a bit behind on loot, since H1 and H2 are somewhat light on treasure and we have 7 players (and the DM didn't have the time to add more items to compensate.) We are still doing just fine - the lack of items hasn't spelled instant doom.
But... items are still nice. :P Treasure and rewards are certainly something characters (and players) enjoy, and so it is nice to see the expected amount of them - especially when you are in the situation where it is almost better to die off and come in with a new, fully-equipped character. That is clearly a sign that something has gone wrong!
I have the full list, if you are interested. I also have all of the magic items from KotS as printed "cards", so I can physically hand them to the players - I could give you that file (pdf) as well.
I'd be interested in that pdf too - could you email it to me?
Yes... and no. You generally want to have appropriate level weapons/implements, armor and neck items to keep your attacks and defenses at the right spot for your level.
Ok I think that covers what I was talking about. You still have to have key items of a certain power for your level or you will suck. I was hoping that would not be the case. I haven't looked at much stuff in detail past the first few levels.
This kind of thing disappoints me a little - it seems that part of the point of introductory modules such as H1 is that they should showcase the rules - which would somewhat include illustrating appropriate provision of treasure!
This kind of thing disappoints me a little - it seems that part of the point of introductory modules such as H1 is that they should showcase the rules - which would somewhat include illustrating appropriate provision of treasure!
Cheers
Well that takes any doubt away from the question at hand... and yes I agree with you that it seems like a rather lazy oversight, but fortunately one that a DM can correct very easily (especially reading what's missing from your list)
I adapted my party's lvl 2 characters from 3.5 to 4e and gave them the adventure in the DMG as a warm up adventure adjusted to their level using the kobolds given in the Dragon (Dungeon?) supplement... As I had the AV in my hot little hands I made sure by the end they would have the appropriate magic items for their level as specified by the DMG packages.
I guess I will do the same thing with KotS which is where the hooks will lead them... they are about to reach 3rd level and I don't owe them any treasure so... Ratmaster Kobolds and Kobold Swarms on the cards; I will sprinkle the appropriate treasure around at my discretion as well, using PHB and Adventurers Vault and make sure they stay on track with the Treasure Packages...
What I was wondering, once each character has some magic Armour and a good weapon and something cool like .... say an onyx dog, and I don't want them to have so many magic items that they dont know what to use... does a 6th level potion count as a 6th level magic Item as far as packages go even though the price difference between a 6th level sword and a 6th level potion is really big?
This kind of thing disappoints me a little - it seems that part of the point of introductory modules such as H1 is that they should showcase the rules - which would somewhat include illustrating appropriate provision of treasure!
Cheers
I think your chart is a bit off. Running through levels 1-3 should net you:
1x level 2
2x level 3
3x level 4
3x level 5
2x level 6
1x level 7
That gives you the 12 magic items you mentioned. Also, I went through KotS today for this very purpose and found the following levels of magic items:
1x level 1
2x level 2
3x level 3
2x level 4
2x level 5
1x level 6
+1 magic item I couldn't place a level for.
That brings us to 12 magic items, but not all at the correct levels.
-tRR
Last edited by theRogueRooster; 10th October 2008 at 02:57 AM..
The other big thing is that there's a fair few items that are not that good for the average party. I imagine it's pretty easy to accidentally have a party where only one or two items out of the entire deal are actually worth using (ie - for many classes there are items for only one of the two build options). It would have been pretty easy in my opinion to have a mix of items that would have been universally good.
That brings us to 12 magic items, but not all at the correct levels.
-tRR
Correct. Both H1 and H2 have the proper NUMBER of items (12 each...) but neither of them have the proper item levels, and of course, the desirability of many of the items is a bit lacking (Bag of Holding is a perfect example of an item that I'd expect a 5th level character to *purchase*, but wouldn't be excited about finding even as a 1st level character).
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