Against The Giants RPG stats - balanced?

[Hellzon]

You know, these. Mostly MM1 monsters, but there are some goodies in there - Gnaw Demon, Xorn Ravager, Cockatrice, Angel of Retribution, Hellwasp, Young Adamantite Dragon and Chain Golem. I tried to google up an older thread about this set, but couldn't find one.

So, have anyone tried the new monsters and are they balanced? I hear the "Dungeons of Dread" monsters weren't very close to what showed up in the MM.

[Jhaelen]

Well this set has exactly the same issues. At the very least you'll have to increase the hp.
Just compare them against the DMG guidelines for their role/level.

For the ones who are in the 4E MM1 you can easily compare them against the rpg stats, e.g. the Elder White Dragon:

Stat Card: AC 33, Fort 34, Ref 31, Will 31, HP 290, Perception +11, Claw Damage 2d10+6.
Predator's Claw +20 vs. Ref, etc.
Breath Cone 10 +22 vs. Fort, 3d12+8 cold and -2 attack.
Icy Tomb Ranged 5, +22 vs. Fort, 4d12+8 cold and helpless, continue 4d12+8 cold.
Frightful Presence +16 vs. Will.

MM1: AC 31, Fort 32, Ref 29, Will 29, HP 850 (!), Perception +16, Claw Damage 1d10+6.
Predator's Claw -
Breath Close Blast 5 +20 vs. Reflex, 6d6+8 and slowed and weakened (save ends both).
Icy Tomb Ranged 10, +20 vs. Fort, 2d12+8 cold and restrained and stunned (save ends both).
Frightful Presence +20 vs. Will.

So, the MM version has lower defenses (-2), a lot more hp (umm, about x3), higher perception (+5), lower damage (1/2 mostly), and lower attacks (-2). Ranges and conditions have changed (in part) and of course cones have been removed from the game.

[Hellzon]

Originally Posted by Jhaelen

Well this set has exactly the same issues. At the very least you'll have to increase the hp.

Thanks. Yeah, I checked the young adamantite after composing this post, and its HP was way low. (Might not raised defenses and lower HP even out, though?) The chain golem seemed to follow the guidelines, actually.

Noticed the cone thing too, and the Ravenous Dire Rat is a minion but has HP? (5, so it's probably the same in practice.) Yes, I only checked the math on those three monsters.

Edit - Humorous effect: The cockatrice's petrification is "save ends". I'm imagining a band of heroes carrying bound 'trices to grab when they desperately need that damage reduction. Who said 4E didn't encourage thinking outside the box?

[Hellzon]

Originally Posted by Hellzon

(Might not raised defenses and lower HP even out, though?)

Since I'm bored, it's crunch time. With lots of assumptions.
Assume a 50% hit rate when attacking an MM monster. If DDM monsters have -2 to all defenses and AC, that's a 60% hitrate on them, or a 20% increase in hits and therefore damage. That means they might be balanced if they had 20% more HP, not 200% more*, and that I'm bad at assuming.

*) Maybe someone at WOTC added a zero...

[frankthedm]

The cards and the minis are made several months in advance. Anything so far released was written during the playtest phase of 4E. Example; Demonweb, the next set to get released, is the first set the new lead designer Peter lee had any input on, and he was hired back in January. The monster cards are still from earlier Playtests when monsters did a lot of damage but died faster.