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D&D 4th Edition RulesAsk questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.
You know, as much as I like the class, it seems kinda awkward at times. I'm wondering if that was on purpose.
For instance, they can't easily learn weapon-based feats. Most of these require Dex (light blade), Dex and Str (heavy blade), Str and Con (blunt and axes), etc.
A Swordmage's main stat is Int, with a secondary of either Str or Con. Dex is a dump stat, since you use Int, and typically you won't have Str AND Con, since then you wouldn't be boosting Int.
Now, for most melee classes, it seems like this is because Int is the dump stat, letting you pump Str and Dex (or Con and Dex), and take weapon feats. Switching from Dex to Int messes this up.
So, what stats should a swordmage be using, and what feats should he be taking?
You know, as much as I like the class, it seems kinda awkward at times. I'm wondering if that was on purpose.
For instance, they can't easily learn weapon-based feats. Most of these require Dex (light blade), Dex and Str (heavy blade), Str and Con (blunt and axes), etc.
A Swordmage's main stat is Int, with a secondary of either Str or Con. Dex is a dump stat, since you use Int, and typically you won't have Str AND Con, since then you wouldn't be boosting Int.
Now, for most melee classes, it seems like this is because Int is the dump stat, letting you pump Str and Dex (or Con and Dex), and take weapon feats. Switching from Dex to Int messes this up.
So, what stats should a swordmage be using, and what feats should he be taking?
I'm going with Intelligent Blademaster (which negates the need for Strength), Raging Storm (my Dex is just enough to qualify) and from there maybe multiclass Wizard. And since I'm a dragonborn, I'll also look into the Dragonorn racial feats.
For instance, they can't easily learn weapon-based feats. Most of these require Dex (light blade), Dex and Str (heavy blade), Str and Con (blunt and axes), etc.
A Swordmage's main stat is Int, with a secondary of either Str or Con. Dex is a dump stat, since you use Int, and typically you won't have Str AND Con, since then you wouldn't be boosting Int.
Now, for most melee classes, it seems like this is because Int is the dump stat, letting you pump Str and Dex (or Con and Dex), and take weapon feats. Switching from Dex to Int messes this up.
So, what stats should a swordmage be using, and what feats should he be taking?
My suggestion?
If you want those feats, don't dump Dexterity.
Looking through the book, many of the feats are there to reward people who didn't completely optimize their characters.
Many of those feats are for say, the fighter, who dumps Int instead of Dex. It doesn't come up.
The swordmage suffers from the problem that he's a wizard who carries a sword. You naturally want to take feats to help you use a sword better, but that doesn't work very well. A swordmage's most important stat is the other two defenders' dump stat.
Well, the +2 to OA feat is not that great, I wouldn't take it even for a heavy blade fighter. OAs just happen to rarely (remember: Combat Challenge != OA).
The use at-will for an OA feat also suffers from the rarity of OAs.
Lastly it's only the mastery feat which is nice to have, however I don't think this is enough to justify investing so much into Dex.
If you really want to crit on 19-20, just get a jagged weapon from AV
First, while you can live with a low strength on an assault swordmage, there are a lot of powers which grant you benefits based on your strength modifier. So it might not be a good idea to leave it low.
Second, if you have a 13 starting dexterity, and you never put points into dex at all other than the free ones you get at levels 11 and 21, you will max out with a 15 dex. This will get you all the heavy blade feats up to the paragon tier. Assuming you've been pumping strength in the meantime, you will be fine on that score.
I mean, come on. You have to pump something other than Int. You get the points, you have to spend them somewhere.
In my opinion it seems well worth getting at least a 15 into dexterity by level 11 so a Swordmage can take the Arcane Reach feat, which lets you move the origin square of any close attack powers anywhere within 2 squares of you. This makes sword burst a pretty potent at-will power!
At that point it's not too hard to get the 17 requirement for heavy blade mastery, since you just need to put one point into dex at either 14 or 18 (or 24 if you want to wait), but it's hard to justify the 21 str requirement when you can take intelligent blademaster. I have a firesoul genasi that took the wildfire genasi paragon path, giving me a few strength based attacks, and even with that I don't think I can justify going up to a 21 str.
I mean, come on. You have to pump something other than Int. You get the points, you have to spend them somewhere.
And my Shielding Swordmage would like to spend them on Con. In which case, my Dex doesn't matter, since I think everything except light blades requires Str also, which I won't have.
And it gets worse if I was planning on taking Wandering Swordmage, since it uses Wis...
I think its ok to reward third priority stats, rather than making every class focus on just two.
And in the case of a SM the third priority stat should be Wis, even if he doesn't plan on becoming a wandering swordmage.
The only real reason to increase Dex is Arcane Reach and that alone isn't really worth it (and even if I had increased my Dex to get Arcane Reach, I still wouldn't take of the two heavy blade feats because they have too little use). On the other hand a decent Wis helps a lot with the Will defense while a decent Dex is always eclipsed by the SMs extraordinary Int.
For that matter, the Swordmage writeup says your third priority should be the stat you didn't use of Str and Con.
Using standard array (yes, I know), I come up with:
STR - 13
CON - 14
DEX - 11
INT - 16
WIS - 12
CHA - 10
Sure, I could drop Cha to 8 and boost Dex to 13, but to what point? So I can spend a few of my stat gain on it to gain Arcane Reach? It isn't that great a feat.
It's ironic, my people that I've seen have said Shielding Swordmage has the better powers, but it looks like Assault gets the better feats.
I'm going with Intelligent Blademaster (which negates the need for Strength.
^ This.
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The irony of all this number-crunching is that weapon-based feats don't work with a good half or so of Swordmage powers anyways. By specializing in the weapon-based stuff, you're pretty much focusing on melee-powers only, and giving up range, as well as two of your at-wills.
Except there are more weapon based feats than implement ones. And things like Raging Storm or Astral Fire work on the weapon ones, too. (Doesn't solve the MAD problem, either, since they all require 13 in various stats)
With the exception of Arcane Reach (which takes DEX again), exactly what caster feats are we missing out on?
Raging Fury requires Con 13, Dex 13, which is one of your primaries, and a useful second. Dex 13 then allows for Str 13 to combine for Blade Opportunist. There are three thunder/lightning related feats at Paragon Tier, as well as Evasion.
Eladrin Swordmage
Start with
Str 13, Con 16, Dex 13, Int 18, Wis and Cha 8 and 10, doesn't matter.
You'll get +5 AC, +4 Reflex, +3 Fortitude, +3 Will to start.
First level, Intellegent Blademaster, Second Level Raging Storm.
Fourth level, Blade Opportunist and Bump Str and Int by 1.
Sixth level, Durable
Eighth level, Hide Armor Prof., bump Dex and Int by 1
Tenth level, Quick Draw.
Eleventh level, you now qualify for every lightning, every thunder, HBO, Hide Spec, Evasion, and really, what else do you want other than that?
Wis and Cha are the dump stats, and SwMs don't boost their Will-defense atts as they level anyways.... but who cares because you're sporting +3 Will from class, etc anyways which would make up for any points you'd have wanted to put in there
Eladrin Stormsword. It can go Assault or Defense. Heroic feats can be what you prefer.
Last edited by DracoSuave; 11th October 2008 at 02:05 AM..
Looking through the book, many of the feats are there to reward people who didn't completely optimize their characters.
-O
This is an oxymoron. They're there to encourage people to spread their stats around, but they're just as, or indeed more likely to trip up people who just apply their stats as they "feel right" as people who attempt to min-max without reading the feat section. (which is fairly poor min-maxing anyway)
Wis and Cha are the dump stats, and SwMs don't boost their Will-defense atts as they level anyways.... but who cares because you're sporting +3 Will from class, etc anyways which would make up for any points you'd have wanted to put in there
Eladrin Stormsword. It can go Assault or Defense. Heroic feats can be what you prefer.
Not bad of a setup, although dumping Wis does mean giving up Wandering Swordmage. Which is odd, because you take the class to 11th, so what PP should he be taking?
And does it work with other races? I know it doesn't with human, since you only get the one racial bonus.
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