Mordenkainen's Sword. Am I reading this right?

[Kisanji Arael]

Okay, I do not trust the words in front of me, so I thought I would check in here, since you all know what you're doing.

Mordenkainen’s Sword Wizard Attack 9
You invoke a sword of crackling golden force that slashes and
stabs furiously at the creature you indicate.
Daily ✦ Arcane, Conjuration, Force, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Effect: You conjure a sword of force in an unoccupied square
within range, and it attacks. As a move action, you can move
the sword to a new target within range. The sword lasts
until the end of your next turn.
Target: One creature adjacent to the sword
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d10 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Sustain Minor: When you sustain the sword, it attacks again.

So as I read this, assuming that casting the spell was a wizard's first action, then he should have 1 move action and 1 minor action left this turn, and 1 standard action, 1 move action and 1 minor action on the following turn.

Wizard casts MS. MS appears. MS attacks.
Wizard substitutes turn 1's move action into a minor action and, using both minor actions, the sword attacks twice more.
Assuming that the target does not move or cannot move, then:
The sword does not automatically attack on his next turn, and -
Wizard substitutes his standard action and his move action into minor actions, and sustains the spell three more times.

At this point,, for a wizard with intelligence 18 and no implement, the sword's maximum damage is 6 * (10 +4) = 84.

Is my understanding sound?

[HighTemplar]

Nope, you cannot sustain a spell more then once a round, and you cannot sustain it the round it's been cast. Someone else will bring you the exact pages on what im saying ^^

[HighTemplar]

okok i dirtied my hands

Originally Posted by PHB p278

✦ Sustained Durations: An effect that has a "sustain standard,” a “sustain move,” or a “sustain minor” duration lasts as long as you sustain it. Starting on the turn after you create an effect, you sustain the effect by taking the indicated action: a standard action, a move action, or a minor action. (You can sustain an effect once per turn.) Some effects do something, such as attack, when you sustain them. A power’s description indicates what happens when you sustain it or let it lapse. At the end of your turn, if you haven’t spent the required action to sustain the effect, the effect ends

[Kisanji Arael]

Thanks. That makes it go from unbalanced to underpowered, which was just what I was expecting.

[HighTemplar]

If you call a free INT VS REF attack for 1d10+int dmg for a minor action underpowered.

I personnaly like it. It's a refreshing kind of power, plus as a wizard you can usually just do a standard action and hit pretty much any target, which leaves you with an unused move and minor action, perfect for moving the sword up to 20 squares!!(as long as you keep it within 10 sq of yourself) to attack another bad guy when you spend your minor to sustain it

[jelmore]

Originally Posted by HighTemplar

Nope, you cannot sustain a spell more then once a round, and you cannot sustain it the round it's been cast. Someone else will bring you the exact pages on what im saying ^^

For me, it helps to think of the "Sustain:" line as similar to paying upkeep in MtG. In order to keep the effect going, you have to pay X, where "X" in this case is a minor action.

[kerbarian]

Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael

Thanks. That makes it go from unbalanced to underpowered, which was just what I was expecting.

I think it's pretty strong for a level-9 daily, actually. If you cast it at the start of a 10-round fight and it attacks every round, that's (eventually) equivalent to an attack with 10d10 + 10x Intelligence modifier damage + 10x implement enhancement damage. At level 9, I'd expect a +5 Intelligence modifier and a +2 implement enhancement, so that's 10d10 + 70 damage. If you're pushing it, you could have a +6 Intelligence modifier and a +3 Force Wand for 10d10 + 110 damage.

Another way to look at it is that, for the rest of the encounter, it gives you an extra at-will attack as a minor action every round. It's not exactly equivalent to a wizard at-will attack, but it's pretty close.

[blargney the second]

Neat spell - it's kind of like eldritch blast as a minor action.
-blarg

[Kisanji Arael]

Kerbarian-

Actually, as I read it, it can only last two rounds. Thus the, "lasts until the end of your next round."

AKA Even if you sustain it, the spell doesn't last for another round. It just, "attacks again."

[Stogoe]

Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael

Kerbarian-

Actually, as I read it, it can only last two rounds. Thus the, "lasts until the end of your next round."

AKA Even if you sustain it, the spell doesn't last for another round. It just, "attacks again."

I don't know what to tell you except "you're reading it wrong." Sustaining a power pushes its time limit out one round further. That's how they work.

[Intrope]

Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael

Kerbarian-

Actually, as I read it, it can only last two rounds. Thus the, "lasts until the end of your next round."

AKA Even if you sustain it, the spell doesn't last for another round. It just, "attacks again."

Nope:

Originally Posted by PHB p278

✦ Sustained Durations: An effect that has a "sustain standard,” a “sustain move,” or a “sustain minor” duration lasts as long as you sustain it. Starting on the turn after you create an effect, you sustain the effect by taking the indicated action: a standard action, a move action, or a minor action. (You can sustain an effect once per turn.) Some effects do something, such as attack, when you sustain them. A power’s description indicates what happens when you sustain it or let it lapse. At the end of your turn, if you haven’t spent the required action to sustain the effect, the effect ends

Edit: Ninjae'd! Also, the "lasts until the end of your next round." is just redundant, since that is true of all Sustain effects. It's probably a deliberate redundancy though, as a way of making it clear what happens if you don't sustain it.

[Kisanji Arael]

"I don't know what to tell you except, 'you're reading it wrong.'"

Sometimes, that's all you have to say. Thanks, all.

EDIT: And yeah, Intrope, that's exactly what messed me up, since basically none of the other spells (Bigby's Hands, Flaming Sphere, etc) had that line.

[Belphanior]

Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael

EDIT: And yeah, Intrope, that's exactly what messed me up, since basically none of the other spells (Bigby's Hands, Flaming Sphere, etc) had that line.

None of them? The following sustainable wizard spells also have that line:
Stinking Cloud, (Greater) Invisibility, Wall of Fog, Wall of Fire, Arcane Gate, Bigby's Grasping Hands, (Mass) Fly, Cloudkill, Evard's Black Tentacles, Sudden Storm.

It's a little sloppy of WotC maybe to not be more strict in the way they formulate things.

[Celtavian]

How is that underpowered? You get one attack with your minor and can unleash something else with your standard.

[keterys]

It does seem like it could eat up both your minors and move actions on a target that is moving very much at all, unless the sword auto-follows its target which doesn't seem likely from the language. Hmm.

[Colmarr]

That was my interpretation.

The sword automatically follows its designated target. According to the wording of the power, it only takes a move action to move the sword to a new target. So long as you spend the minor, the sword automatically follows and attacks the original target (so long as there is an unoccupied square available).

Otherwise that 1d10+Int attack is costing you both a minor and move action (because the target will likely shift each round so that the sword is no longer adjacent.

Open to interpretation obviously, but that strikes me as the intention.

[666Sinner666]

Originally Posted by Colmarr

That was my interpretation.

The sword automatically follows its designated target. According to the wording of the power, it only takes a move action to move the sword to a new target. So long as you spend the minor, the sword automatically follows and attacks the original target (so long as there is an unoccupied square available).

Otherwise that 1d10+Int attack is costing you both a minor and move action (because the target will likely shift each round so that the sword is no longer adjacent.

Open to interpretation obviously, but that strikes me as the intention.

It allows a creature to try and shift out of range of the spell, knowingly or not, since the sword must stay within 10 squares of the wizard. Although I believe there is a feat that extends a wizards spell range a few squares, maybe 5 or something like that.

[keterys]

Originally Posted by Colmarr

The sword automatically follows its designated target.

While this may be the intention, I'm not sure it's how the spell is actually worded.

The spell is created in a unoccupied square within range and attacks a target adjacent to it. It bears no wording that it moves on its own.

So in theory a single shift every turn will allow a target to force the wizard to move it.

Heck, technically by the wording of the power you might not even be able to follow a target, since you move it to 'a new target'.

So long as you spend the minor, the sword automatically follows and attacks the original target (so long as there is an unoccupied square available).

No, the wording is that it repeats the attack - the unoccupied square available and follows are not part of the language. Nor is any language about what happens if the target moves out of range of the spell, which would be needed if it followed.

Otherwise that 1d10+Int attack is costing you both a minor and move action (because the target will likely shift each round so that the sword is no longer adjacent.

Correct.

Open to interpretation obviously, but that strikes me as the intention.

But not what is written. And the intention is cloudy - I'd very much like to know for sure, since this same question affects other spells of this type, like spiritual weapon.

[Mahali]

I've always considered following movement to be implied. Now though, I have to think "What if the target moves into an area where they are surrounded on all sides by allies/walls?"

[Plane Sailing]

Originally Posted by Celtavian

How is that underpowered? You get one attack with your minor and can unleash something else with your standard.

One might argue it is underpowered compared to Spiritual Weapon, which does basically the same thing but at 4 levels(?) lower.